[eastside504]

Ok so i'm eating dinner and my sister turns to American Idols. Then i see all the singers, then i eat my food and just listen to them sing. OMG they suck! I know a few people in real life who have much better voice and a lot more talent musically. Then i look at all the singers again and realize that most of them are attractive. MTV and marketing put videos and looks ahead of any real talent. I know that most of the pop/rap/rock now is just cookie cutters product with a nice face to sell. Come on how many people really think Ashley simpson or Linsay Lohen can sing? Or any rap group that can make lyrics other then I got money, clothes, bling bling, sleep with b*$tches, shot you? Or rock group that put some real emotions into their songs? I guess i just want to rant about this becuase its just sad that i have to ask my little sister what's new, happening, and fresh because all day long i'm exposed to the same old talentless crap on TV and radio just because they are attractive and marketable. Ok now i feel better.

 

[saturnine]

Agreed. I cant even listen to the radio these days because all music is sold based on image today (In America at least). One thing I will never understand is music sold on the basis of money, clothes, bling bling, sleep with b*$tches, shot you?. Those topics are "surface" material, and have no positive meanings. Kids listen to that crap these days, and talk/dress/act just like those rappers. I work in a high school, so I know exactly what I'm saying. There is no actual thinking involved in pop culture, just go with the flow.

[my own drunken rant]

 

[Shikatanai]

You might be interested in watching this excellent documentary called "The way the music died" I saw it last year and it goes into depth about the music industry and why music is the way it is today.

And yes, MTV is a major reason.

You can watch it online here:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/music/

Highly recommended

 

[Edwood]

Video killed the radio star!

-Ed

 

[Regus]

It is really sad. Music has become a business with the sole purpose of selling as many copies of round plastic disks with rythmical noise on them as possible. No respect for the art that is music - actually it is not just sad it is really depressing.

(and for the record - it is not just in The US I think it hit The EU around the same time it hit The US after all a very large quantity of the rythmical noise sold in the EU is porduced in The US).

And it is not just about MTV it is about the entire bussines figuring out that the majority of the consumers have no clue what so ever about art of any kind - you can sell them pretty much what ever you like if you market it right. In fact it is a trend that is present far beyond the limits of the musical industry.

It is, I supose, The Dream Society. Which I believe Coca Cola was amongst the very first to move into - The physical product has become secondary to the dream. Coca Cola doesn't sell brown carbonated luquid - they sell adventure and sex. BMG doesn't sell music they sell success and fame - Britney Spears is a first class example of this, she looks good she has loads of money and lives the life of an imaginary star. And that is what they are selling - the music is secondary.

All these ridiculous tv shows where ordinary people get a chance to become stars are all just an extension of this dream, allowing us to believe that we could be the next Britney Spears. And this way they create a full scale dream that allow us to escape the every day rutine of life.

And the dream escape from our tedious lives sell really well in all markets, just look at online roleplaying games such as world of warcraft where you get to live another life in an exciting world, or look at the lottery where people buy a hope of escape for a fairly small sum of money.

I supose what it really tells us is that most people are dissatisfied with their lives - and that is truely sad and depressing.

 

[jpr703]

Well put Regus. As much as some of us complain about the music industry let's remember that somebody will serve up whatever slop the majority of people want to eat.

 

[viator122]

But Regus, wouldn't you say that entertainment has always been escapist to some degree?

 

[Regus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by viator122 But Regus, wouldn't you say that entertainment has always been escapist to some degree?

Thats a fair argument.

And yes it definatly has that aspect - but when I go to the opera to listen to Der Ring Des Nibelunge by Wagner it is not about escaping my life it is about having a great experience as part of my life.

While of course I do escape into the music it is not my sole purpose nor do I escape into a dream that has been built up around the music but into the music itself.

Wheras if i listen to Britney Spears and read about her in all the magazines I am having the same dream that I had when I played with Barbie dolls as child (now I actually don't listen to Britney Spears nor did I ever play with Barbie dolls but you get where I am going). Did you ever see one of those Barbie cartoons in the 80s? That is Britney Spears she is a real life Barbie doll living the life that girls used to dream about when they played with their Barbie dolls.

The difference being whether I escape into the dream that the musician plays for me as I do when I listen to something like Jami Sieber or Bach or Mozart you name it. Or whether I escape into a dream that has been applied to the music by an external power.

It is essentially the difference between art and marketing.

Let me put it another way - you go to a museum and look at a Monet and you look over that pond with the water lillies and you are there on that late summer day standing on that cute little bridge looking over a pond in you best sunday dress.

If it were done the dream society way you would go to a museum you would look at some scetchy drawing of something that could be anything and you would feel like a you were bathing naked in a hot waterfall on hawaii with a beautiful girl.

I supose you could argue that both things are art in some way - but that which is sold by the major record labels today is not music it is marketing as art and may be an art in its own right - but it is not music as art it is music as carrier for art.

 

[viator122]

I agree with you that there has been a downturn in the music industry: there is much much more emphasis on the packaging and image; the music becomes an afterthought.

However, the idea of entertainment as escapism is present in many art forms, to varying degrees. Perhaps not in a Monet painting, but certainly in some paintings, as well as music, literature, etc. Operas deal with dramatic, exciting themes that most people will never experience. Classic works of literature such as Don Quixote, The Three Musketeers, and Robinson Crusoe are escapist.

I think that the difference between The Three Musketeers and Britney Spears is that although they are both escapist, the Dumas work is also a fundamentally sound novel and can properly be called a work of art. Britney Spears is just pure "Dream Society" as you call it.

 

[funnytimes]

so guys, whats new?

 

[TWIFOSP]

Yup so true. Wherever there are swarms and hordes of teenage girls with billions of dollars in purchasing power, someone inevitably will learn how to take advantage of this purchasing power at minimal cost to themselves. Music is marketing and it's that simple. I don't even watch American Idol, and I can tell you that I know it's main sponsors are Cingular and Coke. Because they make sure that everyone knows American Idol is brought to you by those entities. It's not about music.

But that's ok. It really is. It's out there, it's done, let the masses buy what they want. If they fall for it, they didn't know better anyway.

It's not apathy. I just don't care about the droves of hum drum hit songs. I choose instead to find a fanstatic wealth of music outside the normal channels that are marketed towards my demographic. And I find it a plenty. I couldn't care less if joe sixpack and mary jane don't do the same. If they wanted it, they'd find it.

There are a wealth of artists you can support. I'm lucky that I live in the live music capitol of the world, so I can suppport local artists. But I suggest everyone seek out their local artists that they enjoy and do the same. Find artists online that self publish and buy their CDs. One of my favorite bands, Caroline's Spine is free of their label and does this. Their CDs cost a bit more than they would in the store, but I know ever cent goes to them and not some greedy label. So I'm glad to pay it. Ani Difranco worked her ass of and has her own record label independent of the RIAA... I buy her material as well.

The point is, there is music after Coke. Let them make their money. I'll find the real artists on my own.

It's a blooming shame that the real artists who care about the art, are extremely talented, and produce their own original works aren't the music gods they once used to be. It's a shame that all you need to be a superstar is to be a hot teenage girl who can dance and lip synch. But it sells. And as long as it sells, it won't stop. And if it sells that much, it's reasonable to believe that somewhere, somehow it makes a lot of people happy. Maybe it's the thought of being "in the know" or the subconscious desire to worship celebrities that makes the slew of consumers happy. I don't know. Maybe the music makes them happy (yeah right). Whatever the case, they aren't brainwashed, and they make their purchasing decisions on what makes them happy. Well, maybe they are a little brainwashed, but they still have free will. The point is, if it makes em happy, who cares.

That's not to say that not all mainstream artists are crap either. I'm not some "underground only" music guy. Some mainstream is mainstream because it's good. And good music will make money for the record execs, so they'll publish that too. But they don't care which it is; good or popular. There is no difference, there is only "does it sell".

Just buy the music that you enjoy. Whatever it is.

There is a wealth of good music and real artists out there. Find the ones you enjoy, listen to their music, enjoy the happiness that it brings, and throw them a few bucks of your money. It's worth it. And don't forget the master artists of yesterday. As a younger person (early 20s), I think my fondest memories of music was when I discovered Pink Floyd, Zepplin, Lynnard Skynard and the other masters of prior decades.

But just remember, just because it's out there, doesn't mean you have to listen to it

 

[SunShip]

Quote:

Originally Posted by saturnine Agreed. I cant even listen to the radio these days because all music is sold based on image today

I think thats the biggest thing about society today, the concentration on image (and branding) rather than product - everywhere!

 

[Regus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by viator122 I agree with you that there has been a downturn in the music industry: there is much much more emphasis on the packaging and image; the music becomes an afterthought. However, the idea of entertainment as escapism is present in many art forms, to varying degrees. Perhaps not in a Monet painting, but certainly in some paintings, as well as music, literature, etc. Operas deal with dramatic, exciting themes that most people will never experience. Classic works of literature such as Don Quixote, The Three Musketeers, and Robinson Crusoe are escapist. I think that the difference between The Three Musketeers and Britney Spears is that although they are both escapist, the Dumas work is also a fundamentally sound novel and can properly be called a work of art. Britney Spears is just pure "Dream Society" as you call it.

True and if you look at much older litterature folk tales and the likes they all carry the dream of comming from nothing and becomming a prince/princess - if you take the idealisation of folk tales as told by H.C. Andersen - The Ugly Duckling is this trend incarnate.

The difference as I see it here is that it is no longer the music that brings us the dream the music is just a que to trigger the dream. And that means that the art in the music has been lost the music has turned from being the story to being a reminder or trigger if you will of the story.

Much of the older music from the time of Mozart and Beethowen area had small triggers built in - small elements of the music that would stay with you and serve to remind you of the experience of the whole piece. We can all humm the main theme from Beethowens ninth or Mozarts Eine Kliene Nacht Musik and recall the feeling of the whole musical experience.

With Britney Spears it is the same. We hear a song by Britney Spears and emidatly that whole Barbie like world runs through our mind and we get a little of that feeling we got last night when we dreamt we actually were Britney Spears.

So it is essentially the same except the whole musical composition has been reduced to what was foremerly only a small part of a composition - the music has moved from becomming the story to becomming the theme music or soundtrack for our dream.

EDIT:
And by the way to be fair to Rolf Jensen the Author of the book The Dream Society - it is not a term I invented

 

[SunShip]

That's fascinating Regus, have you read Theodor Adorno's theory on popular music and standardisation - it is saying the same thing.

That for classical music, each piece of work stands on its own and supports itself as a whole piece of art, whereas popular music today is becoming more and more standardised, and a song is written and can immediately be categorised - its importance lies not within the work itself, but its relation to the genre its part of - which aims at standardised reactions.

Anyway, Adorno explained it much better then I ever could.

 

[Regus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWIFOSP Yup so true. Wherever there are swarms and hordes of teenage girls with billions of dollars in purchasing power, someone inevitably will learn how to take advantage of this purchasing power at minimal cost to themselves. Music is marketing and it's that simple. I don't even watch American Idol, and I can tell you that I know it's main sponsors are Cingular and Coke. Because they make sure that everyone knows American Idol is brought to you by those entities. It's not about music. (shortened to not flood the forum needlesly)

Being as I have raised in a naturally egalitarian society I find it a little hard to just find my own and not care that whole generations have their dreamworlds streamlined and commercialised.

The problem is these people didn't want Britney Spears - they wanted the dream that is Britney Spears (I think by this time we owe Britney Spears an appology - after all she is far from the only of her kind nor is it her fault). And someone abused their dreams to create this streamlined commercialised dreamworld.

I say abused because they are prevented to a great extend from seeking out their own dreams and realising them selves because they are offered this easy off the shelve dream that anyone can have for a miniscule amount of money.

I feel very priveledged to have grown up in a time and place with large outside areas on which we played a lot, when a bicycle was a lot more than just a means of transportation and our TV was 14", black and white and showed only one really boring channel. Later when I was around 13 or 14 I think I got my first computer (a C64) and since then I didn't spend much time outside riding my bicycle - My dreams no longer included playing pirates in a friends garden with sticks as swords, because it was so much more fun to play ghosts and goblins or whatever it was called on the computer. Later on much of my social life evolved around another commercial dream the WOTC game Magic The Gathering.

And I can emagine having fallen into the dreams that are spewed out today and never have really taken my life anywhere because the dream was right there in my pocket playing from an iPod through a pair of mainstream headphones. I mean why bother you can buy the dream on CD so is there really any point to going through all the troubles of the real world to aquire it?

I know it is an excesively bleak outlook on life and of course not everybody ends up working in a factory and listening to Britney Spears on their iPod. But it does bear a strinking ressemblance to hard drugs...

And somebody make a sticky somewhere (haven't checked if is already done) with links to self publishing artists, underground and niche publishers please