[paradoxper]

Is that really f**king true? That their Electrostatic amp -needs- the Select DAC II? I didn't really buy that when I read it when it was released, so I never looked into it. Why would that even be, do they have a proprietary link? The Select DAC II does have normal XLR outs... crazy. Anyway, what you're saying is that the MSB amp doesn't cut it, it's a total cash grab for MSB-ecosystem clients, and just go to the DIY T2. MSB amp straight to the dumpster.

I just read up on the KG Circlotron, what limited info there is. Did anyone even build a fully functioning, like "owned" one not on KG's bench? It fits in a 5U chassis and weighs what a speaker amp does, but that sounds rather tame to shoot down audiophile ambitions... I think I read that the build costs weren't terribly more than a DIY T2? I can sort of understand why they're not flying off the shelves like the Carbons, but I was a bit surprised I could barely find any pictures of finished ones.

Anyway, there you have it from the horse's mouth. Someone with real feedback across the top electrostatic amps and posting right here on head-fi. I hope the OP is still following this since he says he bought a BHSE.

They designed a closed-system as the Select DAC is THE direct-drive output.

What I'm saying is the Select DAC is very good, very and if you'd like to be limited, go for it.

I am also saying, there is no reason to do so. Buy the Select DAC, pair it with the DIY T2.

I'm pretty sure there are, say, 5 Circlotrons maybe. I'd gather the T2 build is actually more costly but that is only part of the story.
I think Kevin also developed a 845. But there are a few of his designs that don't garner all of the attention -- Megatron is a notable and venerable pairing with the 007.

 

[Benny-x]

They designed a closed-system as the Select DAC is THE direct-drive output.

What I'm saying is the Select DAC is very good, very and if you'd like to be limited, go for it.

I am also saying, there is no reason to do so. Buy the Select DAC, pair it with the DIY T2.

I'm pretty sure there are, say, 5 Circlotrons maybe. I'd gather the T2 build is actually more costly but that is only part of the story.
I think Kevin also developed a 845. But there are a few of his designs that don't garner all of the attention -- Megatron is a notable and venerable pairing with the 007.

Poor old Megatrons. I haven't heard enough about them to feel where they sit on the scale, so I didn't mention it. The most I usually hear is "now that I've owned and loved XYZ amp, I'm gonna go build a Megatron. I've always wanted to try one, now's the time" and then then the Megatron is never heard of ever again and the guy moves on.

Good for reference to know they're a 007 partner. Thanks for shedding some light on all fronts.

 

[Katzky]

I don't know, man.

If it were me, and money wasn't the issue, and based off your initial post about $100,000 or $180,000 it certainly doesn't sound like it, then I'd bring in the top 3-5 amps all at the same time and just find out the actual answer. Take the guess work and forums posts out of it.

Pretty much nobody has the money for that, so we all speculate and say "what's better" based on guesses. The number of people who've actually heard the MSB Electrostatic amp are only a handful, and I don't mean tried it in passing at a Show or a meet. Then let alone had one at home for some real quality time, and finally who've compared one at home to something else at the top is likely so few that you wouldn't hear from them even here. If I were playing up in that league, I'd just throw out a feeler thread like this, try to get some consensus on the top 5, then buy all of them. The ones that you don't like, you'll be able to move them for little loss even if you buy new.

This is just my take on the situation, but I don't know why you'd do it any other way if you've got the cash and the time investment isn't even that much.

Top 5 I know of:
1. MSB Electrostatic amp (~$40,000)
2. DIY T2 (might be able to buy someone's for ~$15,000, otherwise it's around $10,000 + find a builder + wait a long time, thus I'd throw some money at it)
3. RSA Thunderbolt II (~$7,000 last I heard)
4. BHSE (~$6,000)
5. Not sure what else is up in this league.

The benefit of going electrostatic is that there aren't that many amps. Most people say the DIY T2 (now i think it's like rev.2) is the end of the line, then Audio Addict said the updated Thunderbolt II was it. Then there's the MSB Electrostatic at the top of the money pile. That's only like 3 amps. The BHSE, just based on my reading, is never in that league, it's kind of the "everyman's" best answer, while the other ones either cost a ton more or are hard to track down if you just want to pay a reasonable price.

Anyway, I'm no authority on this, but when you start out talking megabucks, then I'd just solve the problem, not cut any corners, and enjoy my system until the end of my days. Good luck.

I asked the good folks at MSB to put my name on a list of people to whom a Select II dac shall never be sold. Honestly the $100k number was what I thought would sufficient for any possible design. Hmmmm... I’ve only recently found myself in the position to spend like this. Turns out it’s hard to change your relationship with money. Until you posted this it never occurred to just buy them all. It does make sense It’s just a bit terrifying considering where that approach might lead once I start picking out interconnects And power cables.

Im not considering this amp and only posted to hopefully elicit some conversation about it.

 

[Benny-x]

I asked the good folks at MSB to put my name on a list of people to whom a Select II dac shall never be sold. Honestly the $100k number was what I thought would sufficient for any possible design. Hmmmm... I’ve only recently found myself in the position to spend like this. Turns out it’s hard to change your relationship with money. Until you posted this it never occurred to just buy them all. It does make sense It’s just a bit terrifying considering where that approach might lead once I start picking out interconnects And power cables.

Im not considering this amp and only posted to hopefully elicit some conversation about it.

Yeah, I can feel you on that spending front. But hey, the differences likely aren't going to be that huge, while the money kept vs. spent will be.

I hate the cable topic, it's a worse rats nest than amps to me. I've played with it a few times, but I think I'm doing better now than 5 years ago. I leave the insano priced ones out of consideration, but still look for well built ones that look nice enough because I do care about that. I always try to fall back to "spend the most on your speakers/headphones, then 50/50 for amps and DAC" rule when I feel myself getting squirrely.

I don't know if you've got a system plan, but did you think about starting a bigger "system selection" thread? Synergy is always a topic when system building, so it might be worth it to start in the Summit-fi category and see what people tell you. You could even link back to individual sub-threads like this one, for deeper and specific discussion.

On that note, you could probably turn this into your whole life, that'd definitely get the best results. Haha.

Anyway, looks like you got the answer you wanted on this front. Post some pictures of your BHSE, headphones, and rig once you get it. Always good to add more porn to the forums.

 

[Tarttett]

Dick away. I probably spent 3 months with the T2 and MSB before deciding to move to speakers full-time. I also got to spend half a day listening to a Circlotron build which took the awe factor up a notch.

And I didn't exactly crap on the MSB, it's a nice integrated solution, however, I will note it's impossible to divorce from the Select which makes evaluation a bit convoluted.

Hi.

Would you possibly be able to describe your impression for the sound performance for that Circlotron that you had listened to, in comparison to the sound performance for that T2 that you had listened to?

 

[Katzky]

Yeah, I can feel you on that spending front. But hey, the differences likely aren't going to be that huge, while the money kept vs. spent will be.

I hate the cable topic, it's a worse rats nest than amps to me. I've played with it a few times, but I think I'm doing better now than 5 years ago. I leave the insano priced ones out of consideration, but still look for well built ones that look nice enough because I do care about that. I always try to fall back to "spend the most on your speakers/headphones, then 50/50 for amps and DAC" rule when I feel myself getting squirrely.

I don't know if you've got a system plan, but did you think about starting a bigger "system selection" thread? Synergy is always a topic when system building, so it might be worth it to start in the Summit-fi category and see what people tell you. You could even link back to individual sub-threads like this one, for deeper and specific discussion.

On that note, you could probably turn this into your whole life, that'd definitely get the best results. Haha.

Anyway, looks like you got the answer you wanted on this front. Post some pictures of your BHSE, headphones, and rig once you get it. Always good to add more porn to the forums.

Will definitely post some pictures. I already did that type of post it’s called “sold some bitcoin...” Got great advice but it kind complicated things because now I’m doing dynamic, electrostat, and sr1a. Also the person you were chatting with suggested mono blocks to drive the sr1a because “baller”. Seemed a bit ott but I was like fk it why not? Have to change some furniture to accommodate all this.fortunately I already have a dedicated circuit in my room. Going to install a new circuit breaker.... it’s a whole process.

Anyhoo... I think a person getting this amp probably has a dedicated listening room.

 

[Audio Addict]

Here is a review of a Blue Hawaii that recently came out.

 

[paradoxper]

Hi.

Would you possibly be able to describe your impression for the sound performance for that Circlotron that you had listened to, in comparison to the sound performance for that T2 that you had listened to?

I'm not interested in sharing any long-standing thoughts as I only spent a few hours listening.

 

[Benny-x]

Will definitely post some pictures. I already did that type of post it’s called “sold some bitcoin...” Got great advice but it kind complicated things because now I’m doing dynamic, electrostat, and sr1a. Also the person you were chatting with suggested mono blocks to drive the sr1a because “baller”. Seemed a bit ott but I was like fk it why not? Have to change some furniture to accommodate all this.fortunately I already have a dedicated circuit in my room. Going to install a new circuit breaker.... it’s a whole process.

Anyhoo... I think a person getting this amp probably has a dedicated listening room.

Haha, that was your thread? Nice!

I'll go take a look, but did you make like a "final list" that was the outcome or at least current status of the thread? Like the gear your picking, cables, etc. ?

 

[Katzky]

Haha, that was your thread? Nice!

I'll go take a look, but did you make like a "final list" that was the outcome or at least current status of the thread? Like the gear your picking, cables, etc. ?

Yeah I had a final list but decided to demo a MSB dac and pick out mono blocks for the sr1a. Going with hrs rack and transparent cables since my neighbor is a dealer for them. Bigges issue is what I can put in the bedroom and still remain happily married. My wife wants a larger house but I wouldn’t handle all the crap involved with moving. With this in mind, the setup needs to be discreet and fairly compact.

 

[Audio Addict]

@Katzky I lthink you doing a shootout between the Blue Hawaii SE and the A-10 Thunderbolt II is a great idea

 

[Audio Addict]

The A-10 Thunderbolt does make this sound like live performances.

 

[number1sixerfan]

As always, great insight in this thread @paradoxper. Much appreciated!

 

[Tarttett]

I'm not interested in sharing any long-standing thoughts as I only spent a few hours listening.

Would you possibly possess any interest to share any impression for the sound performance for the DIY T2?

 

[paradoxper]

Would you possibly possess any interest to share any impression for the sound performance for the DIY T2?

Sure. We could do pro/con or contrasts to other amplifiers to frame better context.

As a whole, I would constitute the T2 as pretty neutral with some of the tube smoothness -- not a mid-centric presentation, effortless detail extraction and treble extension (so smooth it's dangerous.)
A little dimensional magic that takes a stats smaller staging and envelops a little more 3D to its definition.

I think it helps to have established reference/understanding to, say, KGSSHV, etc and I think it also helps if we may discuss the build topologies -- As the DIY T2, for example, is a hybrid -- gone wild, there are more characteristics that are on the solid-state side than tube.