[BrookR1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JadeEast /img/forum/go_quote.gif Overlaying graphs of the 2 it seems that the sr-60 is more neutral with a smoother high end roll off but a slight rise in low end response.

Question then to all of you audio gurus...how would foam density affect the outcome? Or, was this graph taken with their respective ear pads in place? I guess we'll never know the effects of burn in...but that's another long discussion.

 

[BrookR1]

One more question...can anyone pull graphs of the SR-125 vs. the MS-1?

 

[MaZa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrookR1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif One more question...can anyone pull graphs of the SR-125 vs. the MS-1?

Can't do. Ryu Matsubas site only has graphs for iGrado, SR60, RS1, SR225, SR325i and obviously MS1. Comparing his graphs to, for example, Headrooms graphs wont work because of different measurement styles and different amount of averaging and so on.

 

[BigAmish]

Quote:

Originally Posted by snejk /img/forum/go_quote.gif Or maybe they prove that you can't tell how a headphone sounds from a frequency chart? Having said that I must confess I haven't got a clue how a 225 sounds since I haven't tried any (but I love my RS1! )

If the tester followed proper experimental design, they would have used the same source/amp for all cans they tested (between 50 - 100 by my count!) so direct comparisons can be made. My lack of fluency in Japanese keeps me from knowing their methods, but for those who want to look for themselves can go to the 'translated' page or the original Japanese page where these topics are discussed.

I hear RS-1s really stand out with a proper source/amp, but are 'only' very good (as opposed to being top-flight) on a low end setup. This may account for the curve similarities between the SR-225 & RS-1. Perhaps if an amp that catered to the RS-1 were used (which it may have...I can't tell) the freq curves could have been different. By the way, the Japanese reviewer(s) rated the SR-225 a 4.5/5 and the RS-1 a 5/5. Based on that, it is obvious the freq curves don't tell the whole story. The translated headphone review summary matrix is here.

Nothing but love for the RS-1, although I'll only ever be able to afford the SR-225 (poor man's RS-1?)

EDIT: for those who are wondering, these same reviewers rated the MS-1 a 4/5 & the SR-60 a 3.5/5. Detailed reviews (in Japanese) can be found by clicking on the appropriate links in the review matrix. I believe they cross-compare like models as well (which is the point of this thread)...but I can't understand most of it. Anyone fluent in Japanese want to take a stab at it?

 

[BrookR1]

Well...I heard it that time. I ABed the MS-1s with bowls and my SR-80s and that did the trick. The MS-1s were more detailed and the bass was tighter. They seemed slightly less "veiled" but the highs were a little higher. I've heard the 225s and the MS-1s had a similar sound. I couldn't tell with the comfies. So, I'm now willing to believe that the MS-1s are just comfy versions of the 125...even though I've never heard the 125s before.

But now, I have to say that the SR-80s are more laid back than the MS-1s. The bass is a little boomier and the highs are slightly rolled compared to the MS-1s with bowls. I have to admit though, that I thought the SR-80s were pretty fun. Now, compared to the bowled MS-1s, I don't think the SR-80s are sibilant or piercing...rather they are a little more laid back. This would jive with what other people said about the SR-60s vs. MS-1s...that the bass was more prominent with the 60s.

SR-80s=SR-60s with bowls?
MS-1s=SR-125s with comfies?

I think the SR-80 was the sound I was searching for when I purchased the MS-1s...but I'd like it just a little more laid back and a little darker. I'm researching amps and the RS-2s. I'm hoping one of those will give me the sound I want. Something detailed yet up front, yet a little darker. A refined version of my iGrados.

So then does that mean that Alessandros are just Grados with different pads? Up next...MS-2i vs. SR-325i....just kidding...I can't afford to compare those two. But, if someone in So Cal wants to get together and AB them, I'm definitely interested in comparing the two.

 

[BigAmish]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrookR1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif But now, I have to say that the SR-80s are more laid back than the MS-1s. The bass is a little boomier and the highs are slightly rolled compared to the MS-1s with bowls. I have to admit though, that I thought the SR-80s were pretty fun. Now, compared to the bowled MS-1s, I don't think the SR-80s are sibilant or piercing...rather they are a little more laid back. This would jive with what other people said about the SR-60s vs. MS-1s...that the bass was more prominent with the 60s.

Well THAT was unexpected! Has me a bit worried actually as my old SR-80s were bright/sibilant enough to induce headaches, a bowled MS-1 might make my head explode.

I'll find out first hand when my bowls arrive & report what I hear, assuming I survive the experience. With reversed HD414s (pseudo-bowls) on my MS-1s I actually find the sound quite pleasing overall, but I'd like a shade more detailed & punchy bass. The highs & mids are quite good though, to my ears. Hopefully stock bowls will only be marginally more intense in the highs. We'll see.

 

[BrookR1]

It was surprising to me as well. They do have a bit less energy than the 80s, but are a bit more refined. The highs a step up. Definitely not what I was looking for. I already have the 325is to fill that role...and I really like them. I now want something warmer to complete my collection.

 

[ricmat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by F107plus5 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I just went back over most of this thread and I am very disappointed in two entities: Myself, for not stating the obvious right at the start, and(puts on flamesuit)the entire community of Head-Fi who are in-the-know about the matter and didn't chime in with the #1 Mantra of "let them break-in thoroughly, let them break-in thoroughly, before deciding." I did notice a couple of comments about break-in, but nothing really forceful. Then again; I doubt that most folks understood that the MS-1 in question were brand-new right out of the box. My MS-1 and MS2i were still making slight improvements even months after purchase.

Well, this thread just keeps on fire!

Had a hard time reading all of the posts, (well, almost all..

)

This thing here is: you and i both know that this argument and all that is rising from here is quite doubtfull! There are very few concrete evidence that burn in in fact does work or happens!

Some renowned Hi-Fi makers say it does not exist!

I would ask other question - arent your ears that gome burnt in with your HP sound?.. ..


Well, not sure, so I'm just putting this on the air!

Cheers!

 

[ricmat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JadeEast /img/forum/go_quote.gif Overlaying graphs of the 2 it seems that the sr-60 is more neutral with a smoother high end roll off but a slight rise in low end response.

Good work!

 

[grndslm]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JadeEast /img/forum/go_quote.gif Overlaying graphs of the 2 it seems that the sr-60 is more neutral with a smoother high end roll off but a slight rise in low end response.

Very good work, indeed. Where did these frequency measurements come from? Does one place have lots of common cans?

 

[Esidarap]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndslm /img/forum/go_quote.gif Very good work, indeed. Where did these frequency measurements come from? Does one place have lots of common cans?

Ryu Matsuba, pretty much any can that's worth mentioning has a measurement on the site.

 

[MaZa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esidarap /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ryu Matsuba, pretty much any can that's worth mentioning has a measurement on the site.

He should really do english version of his site. I bet that site has tons of wonderful information.

 

[yale.reinstein]

This is all pretty concerning. My SR80s are so piercing I just couldn't wait for my HD414 pads. I thought I had made a poor decision as I could have gotten the MS1s for 30 dollars less, but now it just seems like the choice would be increasingly more moot. With the unmodified 414 pads everything is toned down -- perhaps a little too muffled, and bass is much more punchy. They're much more comfortable, but I don't know if I'm happy with them. I've said before that they just feel like very large portapros now - not bad just not that clean.

I'm scared that if I modify the uglies I'll get the killer treble back.

I was thinking about getting MS2is but it just seems like these will be more of the same. Do not want.

 

[F107plus5]

Quote:

Originally Posted by yale.reinstein /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is all pretty concerning. My SR80s are so piercing I just couldn't wait for my HD414 pads. I thought I had made a poor decision as I could have gotten the MS1s for 30 dollars less, but now it just seems like the choice would be increasingly more moot. With the unmodified 414 pads everything is toned down -- perhaps a little too muffled, and bass is much more punchy. They're much more comfortable, but I don't know if I'm happy with them. I've said before that they just feel like very large portapros now - not bad just not that clean. I'm scared that if I modify the uglies I'll get the killer treble back. I was thinking about getting MS2is but it just seems like these will be more of the same. Do not want.

Darn; I just gotta get me some of those Grados! I can't very well stand up and defend my MS2i since I don't really know what the SR-80 sound like!

 

[BigAmish]

Quote:

Originally Posted by yale.reinstein /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is all pretty concerning. My SR80s are so piercing I just couldn't wait for my HD414 pads. I thought I had made a poor decision as I could have gotten the MS1s for 30 dollars less, but now it just seems like the choice would be increasingly more moot. With the unmodified 414 pads everything is toned down -- perhaps a little too muffled, and bass is much more punchy. They're much more comfortable, but I don't know if I'm happy with them. I've said before that they just feel like very large portapros now - not bad just not that clean. I'm scared that if I modify the uglies I'll get the killer treble back. I was thinking about getting MS2is but it just seems like these will be more of the same. Do not want.

yale.reinstein: I was like you...for the SR-80, the bowl pads can generate a piercing sound that I often found uncomfortable & stimulated my tinnitus. Very fatiguing. I also felt that listening to the stock HD414s made everything sound muddy. Both situations were totally unacceptable.

For me (and I hope for you), reverse quarter modded HD414s take the painful brightness/sibilance edge off of SR-80s/MS-1s (assuming bowl pads) to the point where audio fatigue becomes almost a non-issue. You lose a slight amount of detail and bass punch compared to bowl pads, but I found the results quite acceptable. In fact, reversed HD414s vaguely resemble bowl pads, just with more porous & squishy padding. If you do the mod & hate the reversed HD414s, you can try them non-reversed where their sonic characteristics approach TTVJ flats! To me, the open driver pad isn't the issue, it is the shape & material composition of the Grado bowls themselves that make the sound hurt. Expose the drivers & the mud lifts from the sound.

Considering how unhappy you are (and how cheap HD414 pads are) you have nothing to lose. I know I'm much happier!