MQA

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Apr 4, 2023 at 2:52 PM Post #31 of 266
If entertainers have to be drug dealers, they'll have to come up with how to get you to give them the money you would have spent on your gear straight to them instead, since drugs would be better, because they'll get more that way, rather than waiting until they make you understand that drugs would be better. Anyone who buys Jay-z gear with the noise chip in it to listen to him on through Tidal, won't get as much drugs for their stuff as they would have if they had given the money straight to him. But he'll still take it for at least something. Is that a tube amp? Nobody's going to want that, lemme think...
Next, we need the best used audio gear salesmen to become rappers.
 
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Apr 4, 2023 at 3:15 PM Post #33 of 266
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Apr 4, 2023 at 6:24 PM Post #35 of 266
Ok, trying to follow along with taking this seriously, what are they folding into what. before the chip takes it back out and puts it where it was? It sounds like they must be taking just over half of the 96khz samples, and hiding them into a 44.1khz stream, right? And this stream, which if played at 44.1khz seems unaltered (oh oh, have you guys tested for that?), and then the samples that are hidden in there, of which there are at least twice as many, get discovered by this chip, and it puts them back in place as a 96khz or higher (no problem at 192 either so far) file, exactly as the original file was. Before spending double and buying the new wrong gear to have that chip in, so that it sounds just like the original stream would have, if he wanted to spend any of the twice as much money as he's getting from you on any more bandwidth for you.
It sounds to me like if this folding technique were actually possible, we should stop including all that empty space in audio files so that they are losslessly compressed, compared to whatever we've been putting all that empty space in there for. Who knows, maybe he'll even start saying he can fit a 768khz sample rate track into a 44.1khz one, without even altering the 44.1khz playback, so imagine the size our files could be now if we get rid of all that unused space from them.
The drug references certainly are appropriate to this discussion. People are upgrading to better gear with an MQA chip in it, and being impressed.
Oh wait, now I get it. Yeah, Master Quality Authenticated does sound like it's better than high res.
You're the grass roots movement if you double the sample rate and simply call it higher res.
I'm coming out with a Righteous Fury chip to put after MQA chips that deletes the higher frequencies. Then tell Jay-z people will pay double to have to have it. Still without him having to send more than 44.1khz.
Here's a philosophical one: Do the artists think that all these people talking about whether or not Master Quality Authenticated sounds better than high res makes their music sound better?
 
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Apr 5, 2023 at 2:30 AM Post #36 of 266
Who decided it would be a good idea to teleport this thread to sound science? Just delete stupid threads, don't dump them on us.
 
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Apr 5, 2023 at 3:33 AM Post #37 of 266
For the past 20 years, I have followed the advice I found at head-fi, and all my purchases have proven to be better than I had expected. I recently subscribed to Tidal music, and found out that they were calling their higher res stuff MQA without streaming more. So I subscribed to it, paying double for mqa. Then I found out somewhere else that I was supposed to buy a new dac with a chip that unfolds samples from the 44.1khz data to up to 192khz, so far. People were talking about what they thought of how it sounds, and there was no consensus. Then someone bought a measuring device, and sent tidal a 192khz test file for them to host with mqa. His readout showed that there was high frequency noise in the mqa output that looked just like oversampling does. Then I started thinking about it by myself. How will a chip ever be invisible in audio, first of all. Why can't this be done by cpu? Oh, the first unfold can be, but they want you to buy the chip. Why is the chip in the dac, not the transport, or sold as a device in between to sound better for people who are happy with their $10k dacs already?
Because Master Quality Authenticated sounds better than streaming higher resolution to people.
Someone heard that Jay-z was buying Tidal back then, and decided Master Quality Authenticated by a chip sounds better than streaming higher resolution, so he went to Jay-z, and said 'You charge them double, and I'll sell them chips.'
I can't believe people can't see snake oil.
If the chip works identically and invisibly compared to high resolution, you've still been had, for having to buy new gear that the chip should be placed before anyways.
If MQA wasn't a scam, it's selling point would be higher resolution for the same cost of bandwidth.
In 20 days, Qobuz comes to Canada, works in Audirvana also, will cost 13.99 instead of 19.99, and streams higher resolution without question. If I had to pay 29.99 somewhere else to be able to get higher resolution, and even if the chip outputted identically to the original stream, I would pay the 29.99 for the simple high resolution stream, because no chip will ever sound invisible, so I would get better sound that way.
I just want to say what I'm saying so that when someone 5 years from now wonders what's with the mqa instead of just being normal, they might see this opinion, and try somewhere else.
 
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Apr 5, 2023 at 3:42 AM Post #38 of 266
Apr 5, 2023 at 9:48 AM Post #39 of 266
You're preaching to the choir here. You should post your discoveries in the Dedicated Source Forum. https://www.head-fi.org/forums/dedicated-source-components.7/
I don't get how I'm preaching to the choir with so many people talking about how Master Quality Authenticated sounds better than streaming higher resolution on their new better dac's with the chip. Sound science seemed more like the place for it, since if the chip actually worked, it would belong on the transport, anyway.
If you buy gear with the chip so that people don't have to use more bandwidth on you, and then play your own higher resolution files from their drive, do they actually sound worse, now that everything at least passively passes through an extra chip first? People who were serious about how things sound besides what you call them will probably be wondering.
Maybe MQA should be telling people they need a whole new equally important part of their systems, that sits before their dac's, that is complicated and difficult to understand how it works, so that people who think cable purity sounds stupid and buy the new complex piece get to be the only ones allowed to hear a difference if they pay double but don't deserve more bandwidth.
 
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Apr 5, 2023 at 11:16 AM Post #40 of 266
I don't get how I'm preaching to the choir with so many people talking about how Master Quality Authenticated sounds better than streaming higher resolution on their new better dac's with the chip.
You are preaching to the choir here because here in sound science we know that MQA is nonsense. We know that 44.1 kHz / 16 bit PCM is audibly perfect. And we know that [Edit: lossless lossy] formats with high enough bitrate are audibly perfect as well. However, it happens that sometimes/often(?) better masters are available in "higher res" formats. But if you convert those to 44.1/16 yourself they will sound equally good (in a proper blind test).
 
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Apr 5, 2023 at 11:46 AM Post #41 of 266
You are preaching to the choir here because here in sound science we know that MQA is nonsense. We know that 44.1 kHz / 16 bit PCM is audibly perfect. And we know that lossless formats with high enough bitrate are audibly perfect as well. However, it happens that sometimes/often(?) better masters are available in "higher res" formats. But if you convert those to 44.1/16 yourself they will sound equally good (in a proper blind test).
I did a search for mqa threads before posting, and only found people were talking about how excited they were that MQA sounded better than streaming higher resolution. I was kicked off of Audio Science Research after being told I was rude for saying things that could stop people from caring about mqa anymore. I found what may be a choir at psaudio, but they won't let me post in the 5 year old thread, my new login doesn't work anymore for some reason, and they were still struggling to say what I am trying to get at, in case anyone is trying to figure out whether or not they should deserve more bandwidth and does some research. The problem is, they're all trying to listen to it to see what it sounds like, instead of just sitting there thinking about it.
What is the science behind saying only sampling audio at a 44.1khz rate is audibly perfect, and converting higher sample rates down to 44.1khz sound equally good? Or thinking that lossless formats, which require an extra chip full of transistors, which sound different and less natural than tubes, (and will always have to be the part that actually plays the interpretation of the samples), to uncompress on the fly, are audibly perfect in playback, rather than degrading?
Unfortunately, digital audio playback's destiny will only ever be 'my chip plays violin virtuosos I've never heard before better than yours.' An argument that's a done deal with those people when you try a dac with an external clock port. We'll just have to hope someone can come up with a clock that can keep time exactly, while the quest for time accuracy goes on.
And yet, you can argue that digital records better than sheet music, because with sheet music, you won't know which violins the composer had in mind. You would have to admit that all those notes played correctly on a Casio keyboard was what it was supposed to sound like. Oh man, that would be a competition to see, accuracy of a virtuoso vs a Casio keyboard with it's clock, regarding the accuracy of playback of sheet music. You know which one you'd rather fall in love with if it's Hillary Hahn.
Virtuoso's probably don't even bother buying any audio gear, since nobody ever cares about playing music at home. They probably think it's a waste of time, too, trying to figure out what any of that noise is supposed to sound like. That's why I'm going to get rich and build my city a bigger and acoustically better world class opera/ballet house, so that I can hear if there's any music I think sounds good.
Casio keyboards probably tell everybody they like Shania Twain the best, because everybody else's digital playback gear is just that stuff nobody got in the first place, suckers.
People who are alright with putting an extra chip in their gear before the dac chip(s) you'll always be stuck with should just skip to asking their favorite artist to throw chips against a wall so that they can listen for which one sounds best on their chip.
Unrelated to the mqa subject, the person who creates an exactly accurate clock, controls time from then on.
The virtuoso's on the violin recordings think your gear sounds like junk. If it was a woman virtuoso, her husband probably wouldn't think there was anything he could play for her at home anyways. That's probably why people always end up going with marrying business people, otherwise no more listening to music at home.
 
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Apr 6, 2023 at 8:05 AM Post #42 of 266
Apr 6, 2023 at 12:10 PM Post #43 of 266
If entertainers have to be drug dealers, they'll have to come up with how to get you to give them the money you would have spent on your gear straight to them instead, since drugs would be better, because they'll get more that way, rather than waiting until they make you understand that drugs would be better. Anyone who buys Jay-z gear with the noise chip in it to listen to him on through Tidal, won't get as much drugs for their stuff as they would have if they had given the money straight to him. But he'll still take it for at least something. Is that a tube amp? Nobody's going to want that, lemme think...
Next, we need the best used audio gear salesmen to become rappers.
Dude, I have no idea what the heck you're saying. This thread is hilarious though. If you want to entertain us, keep it up. If you want to have a real discussion, you need to "tighten it up"

Leo
 
Apr 6, 2023 at 1:29 PM Post #44 of 266
I only have 2 192khz albums, 'Appetite for Destruction' and a Lorde album. I make no claims as to them being my preferences, but as far as the higher bitrate goes, they sound much more fluid and full than lower bitrate versions. I'm getting more continuity and detail with the everchanging sound, it reminds me of the analogue I had until I stopped buying it. If Neil Young wants to write an article about how the human ear couldn't tell a higher bitrate even if you cranked it up at a concert, anyone else who wants to be a lonely guy can say that's why too, knock yourselves out. Not that a rock concert will ever sound good, besides being the source of your dreams in original analogue, on those crappy speakers. You can argue outdoors instead of a studio too, if you want.
What if I said 8 bit 22khz was already exactly what happened, and nobody can hear a difference at 44.1? Reminds me of DOS video games days. Earlier ones, they made it to 16bit, probably still 22khz until a bit after windows 95, though.
OK, I'm listening to "Time" now, (Floyd). I bet you he still slept in. The sound is rolling continuously in it, and it reminds me of what I was getting from analogue. Wow, it really does sound good on this beefy analogue stage. I think they used Abbey Road studio for it, that was a really nice move to make, with all that Beatles money.
I skipped to 'Money' now. I think he means people are all a bunch of losers, because that's all anyone will care about. Abbey Road studio is starting to have to deal with that was a long time ago now, but everyone else at the time sucked in the first place, in comparison and there's something about it that you can tell they must have spent a lot because of.
"The Great Gig In The Sky". Where they want to go when they die, I guess. They hired a woman for the vocals. She thinks it's a great gig, and he must be one of those guys, because of it. Reminds me of analogue, at 192.
"Eclipse", probably because he knows he'll lose and it's the last song. The woman who handled the vocals for the gig is backing the poor man up. It's really too bad, because it all ends up eclipsed by the moon, and there is no dark side, actually, it's all dark. Well, at least it ended. Anyways, I have never heard an analogue section like mine, even though it's just because I don't know anyone with better gear to check out. Do all your talking about it as soon as the new sample hits you, since that's all they'll be doing for a while, but that's what 192 helped, I was stuck with being more of a content guy. But if you want to say I would still get the basic idea at 11khz, I'd probably say that's true. It will piss me of if 11khz is all this analogue section I lived on food stamps for so long gets out of these people. It's a bunch of garbage anyways, if that's how better clocks help. These people aren't fooling anybody, man. Bet you some guy comes along with a better clock, and these people don't seem so stupid anymore. Everybody will be saying, 'hey, you should have been doing that all along, that sucked before, we sounded ridiculous.'
Well, since that's all I have downloaded for the 192 vs the 44 it's mostly been argument, and Tidal won't play 192 with noise like it was upsampling that the guy with the device in the video showed, without having to use an extra chip full of transistors, which sound more electronic than tubes, I guess I could try 96 that they admit your processor can do, hoping they can get you into forking out for an extra chip in your gear. The fact that it's streaming won't help the argument if I think it sounds worse.
Muse, BH&R. Big letdown after the 192 uncompressed on a flash drive. The internet won't work, and 96 seems like they don't really want to tell me about it. As for it sounding noisy, it already would be being flac. Darn I need to listen to it as my own 96 file. And I would have to listen to it as a flac file to see if mqa sounded even noisier. Should I put it on a mechanical drive, also, where it seems noisier, so that it's apples to apples? I guess I'd have to stream it somewhere else through Audirvana for a fair comparison.
But my argument is currently isolated to sander99 and Niel Young saying that 44.1 is already perfect. Streaming is a letdown after my own files, due to the internet to go through, so never mind them, but Floyd on my own drive at 192 was really nice that way. Hey, I can try the actual "Abbey Road" on my drive, talk about apples to apples when it's in the same studio!
Unless anyone else at the time would have rather have recorded there, they won't know what audiophiles are talking about. Something about it still sounds expensive. Well, there are probably classical recordings that used good gear. But this is a studio, that's better, to me. I think they do have studio's for orchestras too, though, don't they? I'm just growing into it lately.
Yeah, 96 is a big bummer after 192. But so relaxed and obvious compared to the brief Tidal streaming. No, "Polythene Pam" is not relaxing, it's much better, The Beatles are doing well. You gotta watch out for chicks like that, man.
Well, after 96 rate being a letdown, I guess it's time for a 44.1 file, to see if it's perfect. Don't think there will be anything more from abbey road.
I only seem to have System of a Down in 16bit 44.1, some people think 24bit 44.1 is perfect. Oh man, is that ever basic, that's like way back when I was playing cd's. That was junk. I only like a few of their songs, this guy can be an idiot sometimes. This one's better, and it's last too. Very lousy amount of information, but thank goodness it's not from the internet. No, they're not maggots smoking fags, they're maggot smoking fags. Hey, 96 from Tidal is next on the playlist. Sounds worse because of the internet, right away. Maybe a bit more recent gear, but not that much. I don't hear any noise, but it's puny and unauthoritative. Oh, my 44.1 was played at 192 to my dac, whoops. It didn't sound bad to me that way, but I've tried changing it after that before after finding that out, and it does get a little better up top.
Well anyways, I think Neil Young's argument that 44.1 being perfect isn't really saying too much to me.
But in Tidal's case, I guess that argument is that you're wasting your money if you pay double for the higher resolution plan you have to hope mqa is the same as, and trade your favorite dac in for something better with an extra chip to get anything out of it if it were even possible for it to improve. Qobuz is busy incorporating the entire rich catalogue of a french streaming platform until next month to be able to get in Canada, so yeah, Tidal at 44.1 it is, for me until then. Tidal's default player sounds the least bad compared to the rest besides Qobuz, so until then, it sounds best if I want audio from anything else, including higher res Amazon, due to it having an even worse player. Although the Amazon player at higher res would sound like I'm getting more track information. Streamers should look for a market that bought great gear that can already do it, instead of making us buy transistor riddled chips first gear so that they can charge double and by not spending more. But I'm sure they'd rather make us trade in our gear for gear with another chip before the mqa chip so that they can actually send 22khz rate files. If Qobuz's player doesn't sound better than Tidal's, or if they give me less than 8 different playlists according to the different types of music I've said were my favorites, I'll probably keep Tidal at 44.1 also for better non-Audirvana use, and just have both. That's still cheaper than when I was buying cd's all the time based on the radio. But if I go back to trying a file uncompressed on my thumb drive, I'll think that stuff.
I'm listening to Tidal at 88.2 now, so that I don't have to keep changing my setting so often, and a 96 mqa track is playing. It doesn't really sound that good. Could be the track. I"m in the new albums section, a girl is saying she thought she was pregnant, and she hopes he goes back to his hometown and marries that girl, she wants to kill her because of it. So I'm not sure why I need a music subscription for a while, I guess.
Anyways, 44.1 seems pretty basic to me, but on the internet, it's worse than that.
We need a chip that makes good content. That's why people are working on ai to save us all.
 
Apr 6, 2023 at 1:35 PM Post #45 of 266
Dude, I have no idea what the heck you're saying. This thread is hilarious though. If you want to entertain us, keep it up. If you want to have a real discussion, you need to "tighten it up"
Oh, maybe you've never listened to Jay-z before. He owns Tidal. He's a rapper who thinks drug dealers should be the entertainers. If you've ever heard anything about drug dealers, it's that they only ever want to water stuff down, so that they don't have to give people as much. That's why you should pay double and buy a chip.
Hey, here's one for the MQA fans: Why can't you use software that will compress your files above 44.1 into MQA, so that you can save space on your hard drives? You're wasting space if they're not all 44.1 MQA FLAC sized files. And why is his 44.1 streaming still 44.1, can't they MQA 44.1 files into 22khz streams?
 
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