[eastside504]

My 6cg7 MPX3 currently has stolen stage 2 and Jenson PIO upgrade. I love the sound with my hd650, however with grado it doesnt get LOUD enough for ME (loud enough for normal listening and normal people's ear, but i want my rock LOUD). I was talking to him and he recommend the 5687 tube upgrade. This will double the output power to easily drive my grado.
The catch is should i get this upgrade or go for the 12sn7 tube upgrade? The 12sn7 will make my hd650 sound heavenly becuase of the better CHEAPER tubes available. However i wont be able to rock out with my grado. Can anyone with expernice with both tubes give me a positive and negative of each.

5687 = cheap tubes available, less details, more power
12sn7 = cheap tubes available, same power, MORE details
Is this correct?

BTW great customer services, he buffered out a super glue blemish i had on my chassis and install new RCA connecters that were dirty as part of his warranty.

 

[elnero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eastside504 ...however with grado it doesnt get LOUD enough for ME (loud enough for normal listening and normal people's ear, but i want my rock LOUD)...

WOW!!! No offense but that's just a scary, it makes me cringe just thinking how loud that must be.

 

[tkam]

Quote:

Originally Posted by elnero WOW!!! No offense but that's just a scary, it makes me cringe just thinking how loud that must be.

Ya you must listen pretty loud, but anyways I'd go with the 5687's you'll get alot more power ~ roughly 3 times I believe it is and I don't think you'll really lose any detail.

 

[jamato8]

You are going to do damage to your inner ear that you will pay for the rest of your life.

John I am a critical care nurse, these things I know as do others.

 

[eastside504]

i dont listen at that loud a level all the time. Just on a few tracks. I worry about hearing loss but its like you listen to a cd and then one track comes one and you jam to that one song. I can turn the volume to 11 oclock but at 12 oclock i hear distortion and that's the level of volume i want for the grado. I normally listen at 9 oclock. Thanks for the concern though guys.

 

[Len]

From what I've seen, 12SN7 prices have been skyrocketing in the last 3 months. You used to be able to find them at 1/10 to 1/4 of an equivalent 6SN7, but it's inching up to about half their price now. I wonder if it isn't all Singlepower users who's causing this

The production of 12SN7/12SX7 was never nearly as abundant as 6SN7, so the supply is bound to catch up to the demand much quicker.

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eastside504 My 6cg7 MPX3 currently has stolen stage 2 and Jenson PIO upgrade. I love the sound with my hd650, however with grado it doesnt get LOUD enough for ME (loud enough for normal listening and normal people's ear, but i want my rock LOUD). I was talking to him and he recommend the 5687 tube upgrade. This will double the output power to easily drive my grado. The catch is should i get this upgrade or go for the 12sn7 tube upgrade? The 12sn7 will make my hd650 sound heavenly becuase of the better CHEAPER tubes available. However i wont be able to rock out with my grado. Can anyone with expernice with both tubes give me a positive and negative of each. 5687 = cheap tubes available, less details, more power 12sn7 = cheap tubes available, same power, MORE details Is this correct? BTW great customer services, he buffered out a super glue blemish i had on my chassis and install new RCA connecters that were dirty as part of his warranty.

I dont know that a 5687 tube is inherently less detailed than a 6sn7 tube. IMO, the difference is the ppx3 circuit and smaller unregulated power supply is less detailed than the mpx3 circuit and its large regulated power supply. 12sn7 tubes have no more power than a 6sn7 tube. The 5687 is rated to deliver up to 2.5x the peak power of a 6sn7. The 5687 has a much lower output impednce and can supply much more power to the low impedence grados. The 5687 tube sounds great with the senns and it WILL drive the low impedence grados better; no doubt.

As for price, they have both gone up recently. The 5687's I bought six or eight months ago were only $4; some only $3.25. The latest batch I bought(today) I had to pay between $9-12 per tube (tung sol d getter/ raytheon 5687wa). I still see 12sn7's going for $7-10. I paid between $4-10 when I started buying the 12sn7's months ago and I havent seen much of a price increase at the places where I buy. With the black glass tung sol 6sn7's going for $275 minimum now, that would make an equivalent pair of 12sn7 for 1/10 the price $27.50. The most I have paid for any of the 160+ 12sn7's I have was $10 for some RCA gray glass. Most dealers still have them for $<10. The trick is finding the rarest ones at all. But thats the same problem you have when you use nos 6sn7's.

 

[eastside504]

SACD,
so in your opinion the 5687 dont loss much in term of details compare to the 12sn7 tubes, but gain the advantage of increasing the power output. If that's the case then i guess its the 5687 path then. Any recommendation on tube brand? Maybe i should ask Mikhail what other tubes he can install.

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eastside504 SACD, so in your opinion the 5687 dont loss much in term of details compare to the 12sn7 tubes, but gain the advantage of increasing the power output. If that's the case then i guess its the 5687 path then. Any recommendation on tube brand? Maybe i should ask Mikhail what other tubes he can install.

Remember you have 9 pin mini sockets. You need a tube thats compatible with your tube sockets, unless you want to basically rebuild the amp. The 6cg7 or the 5687 are the best output tube choices with 9 pin mini sockets, IMO, with the 5687 being my preferance. For tube brands the tung sol 5687/ 5687wa D getters are hard to beat. The early Raytheon 5687 D getter(hard to find) and 5687wa O getters are another favorite of mine. Other good 5687's are the sylvania gold brand 5687 and I like the RCA 5687 too.

 

[Audiophilehi]

I have an MPX3-12sn7 on order. I can't wait to get it.

My question to the group is what are the best brand of 12sn7 tubes and what is the best place to buy?

Are there any other type tubes in the MPX3-12sn7 or just 12sn7?

Thanks
Paul

 

[Len]

I forgot to mention, if you are looking for more volume, try a Mullard ECC32. It's not an exact 6SN7 substitute, but Mikhail has some amps pictured with them, so I think it's safe to assume they work in his amps. You may or may not like the ECC32 sound, but it's got a lot more gain and will be much louder (30-50% louder) at the same volume setting.

 

[Sleestack]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiophilehi I have an MPX3-12sn7 on order. I can't wait to get it. My question to the group is what are the best brand of 12sn7 tubes and what is the best place to buy? Are there any other type tubes in the MPX3-12sn7 or just 12sn7? Thanks Paul

I'm in the same boat. MPX3 on order. I ordered another set of 6sn7 tubes recommended by Mikhail, but nothing to take advantage of the 12 v mod. Which to buy and where to get?

 

[Glod]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiophilehi I have an MPX3-12sn7 on order. I can't wait to get it. My question to the group is what are the best brand of 12sn7 tubes and what is the best place to buy? Are there any other type tubes in the MPX3-12sn7 or just 12sn7? Thanks Paul

SACD Lover - again

- has been reporting on some extensive 12SN7GT tube rolling. He's probably resting now, exhausted by, the success of the SLAM and the bewildering GS-1 experience, not to mention what all that SLAM-ming has done to his head

. He will be too tired, and modest, to remember this thread

http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showt...0&highlight=12

In short: The "best" 12SN7 are, IMHO, simply the 6SN7 equivalents, i.e. the usual suspects like Tung-Sol 12SN7GT (round-plates), Sylvania 12SN7GT (mid 1951 to begin 1953), RCA 12SN7GT and GTA (black-plates and grey or clear glass), early 1950's Hytrons. I have also tried several B36. One or two of them have been quite good, but they are an acquired taste I would say. The same goes for some 12SX7GT. A peculiar tube, probably not to everyone's liking.

As to where to get these. Well, the one's SACD Lover have not yet laid his hands on

are everywhere. Most dealers have some, but the really early one's are not that easy to find IME. I would be grateful if SACD Lover would chime in here and share his wealth of knowledge...

 

[sacd lover]

I am off to work now but I will post some tube suggestions this evening.

 

[Audiophilehi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glod SACD Lover - again - has been reporting on some extensive 12SN7GT tube rolling. He's probably resting now, exhausted by, the success of the SLAM and the bewildering GS-1 experience, not to mention what all that SLAM-ming has done to his head . He will be too tired, and modest, to remember this thread http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showt...0&highlight=12 In short: The "best" 12SN7 are, IMHO, simply the 6SN7 equivalents, i.e. the usual suspects like Tung-Sol 12SN7GT (round-plates), Sylvania 12SN7GT (mid 1951 to begin 1953), RCA 12SN7GT and GTA (black-plates and grey or clear glass), early 1950's Hytrons. I have also tried several B36. One or two of them have been quite good, but they are an acquired taste I would say. The same goes for some 12SX7GT. A peculiar tube, probably not to everyone's liking. As to where to get these. Well, the one's SACD Lover have not yet laid his hands on are everywhere. Most dealers have some, but the really early one's are not that easy to find IME. I would be grateful if SACD Lover would chime in here and share his wealth of knowledge...

Are there 3 12SN7 tubes in the MPX3-12SN7 or are there other type tubes as well?

Paul G.