MP3 player (HD-type) comparison

[MacDEF]

We talk so much about the various hard-drive-based MP3 players that I thought I would put together a comparison of the various models. As of right now, I have included:

iPod
NOMAD Jukebox 6
NOMAD Jukebox 20
Archos 6000
Archos Recorder
Archos Studio 20
PJB100
Treo 10

(The Archos Recorder 20 is identical to the Recorder, but with a bigger hard drive. There are also a couple "crippled" NOMAD players that I didn't include. Finally, Treo, despite barely shipping the Treo 10, just announced a Treo 20 -- I didn't include that yet, cuz we'll probably see it shipping in about a year

)

I tried to figure out all the "features" people would be looking at, and entered the respective info for each player in a spreadsheet. Where I didn't have info, I placed a question mark.

For each category, I also picked what I thought was clearly the best and highlighted it by using red text. If I thought it was too close to call, I didn't choose a "best."

If you're interested, you can get the Excel spreadsheet here:

http://homepage.mac.com/macdef/HD-MP3-players.xls


If you find a mistake, or if you know of a verified source for missing data, please let me know. Also, if there is a "feature" that is missing that you would like added, post it. I'll also be happy to add a player if verified info can be found for the data fields in the spreadsheet.

 

[crk]

Hi Mac
I have a Nomad Jukebox 6 which I think is just great. Here are a couple of additions to your spreadsheet.
It does have a hard drive. In fact it is relatively easy to upgrade with larger capacity 2.5", 9.5mm drives
Processor: Cirrus Logic EP7212
Speed: the chip can run at 18, 36, 49, and 75mhz settable by software. I don't know what speed it actually runs at!
The OS is Creative propriety(!)
Battery Life observed: at least 4 hours with a freshly charged set of 4 AA's (1800 mAH)
I don't believe there is an option for a radio.
The included headphones aren't generic (I hope), they are truely awful.
The audio chip is a TI TPA111A2. It is 'rated' at 150mW. I find it more than enough to power ETys, Grados etc. However, the o/p coupling capacitors are on 10 microF so the NJB does not drive low impedance phones well unless you add additional o/p caps

MP3 VBR is supported
There are several third party programs available for interfacing with the NJB and dealing with the SDMI
crk

 

[MacDEF]

Thx for the info

 

[BB.]

A few errors and omissions for the PJB-100:

1. The PJB-100 price was recently lowered. 6GB can be had for $369 and 20GB for $439.

2. Headphone output is 50mW @ 32Ohms

3. The unit does not have a "line-out". Though it appears you're using "line-out" to refer to headphone jack.

4. The included headphones are not generic, they are Koss PortaPros which are the best sounding headphones I've ever recieved for "free" with a portable.

5. The PJB-100 does not have adjustable speed playback.

6. DC charging is not an optional add-on-- it comes standard with the PJB-100.

7. The PJB-100 can not act as a USB hard drive or similar. However, it would be worth noting that you can use the device to store non-music data files for transport between computers. You just have to use special software to accomplish this.

8. The unit is available in 6/20/30 GB configurations, not just 6.

9. There is no equalizer. Only "Normal", "Extra Bass", and "Super Bass" settings.

10. The OS is custom to the unit. According to Compaq, the unit has no OS.

Some other things you might want to include on your list:

- Sound quality
- Headphone output vs. line-out
- Games (both PJB and iPod have this)
- Supported platforms (Mac, Windows, Linux)
- Reliability and quality of construction
- Included accessories (carry case etc)
- User replacable batteries? (Needed for long trips when power is not available.)
- Include new announced products such as RioRiot and Nomad3.

That's all I can think of off hand. Looks like you're well on your way to having one of the best comparison charts on the net.

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by BB. 3. The unit does not have a "line-out". Though it appears you're using "line-out" to refer to headphone jack.

By line-out, I mean line-out

I got the info from a PJB web site. Thanks for the correction.

Quote:

4. The included headphones are not generic, they are Koss PortaPros which are the best sounding headphones I've ever recieved for "free" with a portable.

I would agree -- I just put "Koss" in the wrong spot (Treo vs. PJB)

Quote:

8. The unit is available in 6/20/30 GB configurations, not just 6.

According to the PJB web site, it's only 6 and 20, but I'll add a 20... I'm assuming it has all the same features?

Quote:

9. There is no equalizer. Only "Normal", "Extra Bass", and "Super Bass" settings.

OK, bass boost.

Quote:

Some other things you might want to include on your list: - Sound quality - Headphone output vs. line-out - Games (both PJB and iPod have this) - Supported platforms (Mac, Windows, Linux) - Reliability and quality of construction - Included accessories (carry case etc) - User replacable batteries? (Needed for long trips when power is not available.) - Include new announced products such as RioRiot and Nomad3.

Sound quality: too subjective

Headphone vs. line: already have it (line-out is line-out)

Games: I guess

Kind of a novelty, but I'll add it

Supported platforms: I can add that

Reliability: again, too subjective

Accessories: minor, IMO, but sure

User-replaceable batteries: already have it "(can use alkalines?)"

RioRiot and NOMAD3: will do on the Riot, but it doesn't seem to be shipping, and the NOMAD3 isn't even listed on their own web site yet

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[e-r0ck]

http://www.hotmp3gear.com/ComputerIn...omparison1.htm

here's a comparison that was done awhile ago and last updated sometime in december. It got a bunch of stuff on some of the players you included and on the new Archos Multimedia that is scheduled to come out next month around the time of the RioRiot.

http://www.hotmp3gear.com/Multimediaplayer.htm

theres some more info on the multimedia player if you want to use it. The 2MB Memory Buffer seems like a complete joke and that cant be what they're going with, especially to play videos. I dont get it.

 

[BB.]

MacDEF,

The PJB-100 is available in 30GB config. See http://www.mp3factorydirect.com. Really expensive though-- almost $600.

Regarding "sound quality" and "reliability" being too subjective... so what? You included "looks" which is even more subjective. Since this is an audiophile discussion group of sorts, it makes sense to include sound quality. Otherwise it's like a headphone comparison that talks about features & comfort, yet ignores the sound quality.

Most people agree the cheaper Archos 6000 has rather disappointing sound quality from it's headphone jack, while the Archos Recorder is an improved version with much better sound from it's headphone out.

Most also agree that the iPod, PJB, and Treo all sound better than the Archos or Creative. It's also well known that both the PJB and Treo have quite a bit of background hiss.

It's also well known that many recent Rio products have serious quality problems. For example, go on either cnet or amazon and lookup the Rio 800. In some cases nearly half the people that bought it are disasisfied with it-- mainly for reliability reasons. I hope the RioRiot isn't the same, but it was designed and produced by the same group that did the Rio 800 so one has reason to be concerned.

By user replacable batteries, I mean can you go out and buy another battery, charge it, and easily switch batteries while on the go without too much fuss. Batteries being alkalines have nothing to do with it.

For example, the Archos allows changing batteries on the go, but it's very difficult to do because of the design of the battery compartment. The PJB uses a standard size lithium ion battery that is just as easy to replace as an AA battery in most portable CD players. While the iPod battery is sealed inside the case much like that of a Palm Vx.

Going from the standpoint that the main point of user-replacable batteries is to extend battery life between charges, I would rate the PJB best in this category, Archos next best, and iPod worst. Yet, one cannot tell this from looking at your chart.


e-r0ck,

I've already looked at that link on hotmp3gear many times over the last few months. At first I thought it was a good comparison, but then I discovered tons of errors in it. When I pointed it out to the author he just ignores me, despite being an active poster on various forums.

For example, he lists both the iPod and PJB as SDMI compliant which is totally wrong. There are many other errors as well which I won't go into. I would assume since he actually sells Archos and Neo players (but not the others) he is somewhat biased.

Take a look at what he's selling on the main page of that site. Then keep that in mind as you read his comments. Notice how every product he sells is great in nearly everyway and how everything he doesn't sell is "good" too but has one or two "fatal flaws".

 

[jcorkery]

Quote:

Originally posted by BB. Most also agree that the iPod, PJB, and Treo all sound better than the Archos or Creative.

Where did you find these statistics? Were people testing them with the headphones that came with the units? The headphones included with the Nomad Jukebox are terrible! I was listening to my NJB with Etymotic ER4Ps and my brand new Porta Corda for several hours tonight and was truly amazed.

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by BB. Regarding "sound quality" and "reliability" being too subjective... so what? You included "looks" which is even more subjective.

I kind of disagree. I haven't heard a single person, anywhere, say that the iPod wasn't very attractive. And those opinions are all informed opinions -- everyone can see a picture. Sound quality of MP3 players is one of the most subjective things on earth

Not only is everyone going to listen using different headphones, different music, etc. (which is fine if there is a forum with a large sample size, like Head-Fi, so that "consensus" can be reached), but also people can't even agree on what "CD quality" is, so how can a consensus on MP3 player sound quality ever be reached?

I just think that's too questionable to include, and I wouldn't take any chart that tried to include them seriously.

Quote:

By user replacable batteries, I mean can you go out and buy another battery, charge it, and easily switch batteries while on the go without too much fuss. Batteries being alkalines have nothing to do with it.

I think I see what you're saying. I have most of that already when I say whether or not the player can use standard alkaline (AA, etc.) batteries -- by that I mean can you swap out the rechargeables with another rechargeable or with alkalines. But is there a player that uses a proprietary battery that can be swapped out?

Quote:

Going from the standpoint that the main point of user-replacable batteries is to extend battery life between charges, I would rate the PJB best in this category, Archos next best, and iPod worst. Yet, one cannot tell this from looking at your chart.

You can, from the "can use alkalines" entry. Maybe I just need to rephrase the category.


Again, thanks for the feedback everyone. I'll try to do some more updating this weekend.

 

[citroeniste]

Nice job! The only thing I would ad is "world power grid compatibility". This feature is, I think, more important than DC charging. How many people are going to stick the thing in their cars for 12 hours straight, compared to the number of people who are going to take them travelling, on junior year abroad, Fulbright grants, etc?

Your iPod, assuming I read the chart right and it charges from the FW port (I'm getting more impressed with this FW thing all the time) would get a "yes", because I've never seen a notebook computer with a 110V-only power supply. And I think it goes without saying that any traveller with a portable HDD MP3 player will also have a laptop.

My Archos gets a big fat "no", unfortunately.

 

[Rpell]

I agree with jcorkery. When used through its line-out jack with an external amplifier, the Nomad offers excellent sound quality.

 

[e-r0ck]

Quote:

Originally posted by BB. MacDEF,e-r0ck, I've already looked at that link on hotmp3gear many times over the last few months. At first I thought it was a good comparison, but then I discovered tons of errors in it. When I pointed it out to the author he just ignores me, despite being an active poster on various forums. For example, he lists both the iPod and PJB as SDMI compliant which is totally wrong. There are many other errors as well which I won't go into. I would assume since he actually sells Archos and Neo players (but not the others) he is somewhat biased. Take a look at what he's selling on the main page of that site. Then keep that in mind as you read his comments. Notice how every product he sells is great in nearly everyway and how everything he doesn't sell is "good" too but has one or two "fatal flaws".

Thats probably why he sells the products he does. No matter where you go there's going to be some biased opinion in reviews. Personally, I agree with what he says as far as what are the better products. You obviously dont, and thats fine. Thats why i posted it here so MacDEF can take what he wasn't sure on (like battery life) of the Archos Players and add it to his. As a side note, I've heard reports of people gettin around 15 hours out of the Archos players if they just let a playlist run.

That SDMI compliant stuff is based on the base unit firmware, not upgraded firmware.

Then again, he does have some inside information with the Archos staff so he probably is biased...

um.. the new Archos Recorder 20 is reported to have better sound quality than the original Recorder. From side by side comparisons I thought the original Recorder sounded better than the Treo too. Just some thoughts. The iPod sounds a little better than the original Recorder and the PJB is about on par (you gotta give n take the backround hiss and all that).

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by citroeniste The only thing I would ad is "world power grid compatibility". This feature is, I think, more important than DC charging. How many people are going to stick the thing in their cars for 12 hours straight, compared to the number of people who are going to take them travelling, on junior year abroad, Fulbright grants, etc?

I think I should rename "charging" to "power/charge" since DC power is more likely to be used to power the unit rather than charge it -- a lot of people use their player in the car through the car stereo.


Quote:

My Archos gets a big fat "no", unfortunately.

It seems to me that since you can get a cheap adapter at Radio Shack, all of them are "world power grid compatible"

 

[Neruda]

Quote:

I would agree -- I just put "Koss" in the wrong spot (Treo vs. PJB)

actually, the Treo comes with Koss headphones as well. I can't see the spreadsheet unfortunately, so don't know of any other corrections I could offer.

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by Neruda actually, the Treo comes with Koss headphones as well.

Cool, thx, Neruda. SportaPros or PortaPros?

Quote:

I can't see the spreadsheet unfortunately

Do you not have Excel?