[binkgle]

I've been using foobar for months, if not years, now. I've been using the high sample rate mode on my av710 and a supermini-III amp to run my akg k240s, the majority of my library is in lame v2 mp3 or itunes aac (vbr, 128-224), and some cbr of each. i have some flac, too.

recently i've decided to go back to itunes, which i used before. tagging is much easier, the only annoying part of the switch being the conversion of classical tags, though i much prefer the system i have worked out in itunes to the half-baked one i had going in foobar. i love the organization of itunes, i love that it's no great hassle to use my ipod (was using foo_dop). i was never satisfied with my foobar layout or any one i saw on head-fi or hydrogenaudio, and never managed to successfully copy other people's layouts when i tried.

i now use the normal 2 channel mode on the av710 with the amp. despite kmixer and the sound card mode switch, i hear no sound difference. i can't even tell the difference between amp and no amp with the k240s (definite, wonderful difference with the im716s, though). my hearing in general isn't the best and never had been. i can't even abx 128 kbps mp3s, either, except in very rare cases.

all in all, i'm having a very positive experience with itunes now. i'm slowly migrating my library, checking tags on every album, etc. I hope to get a macbook or macbook pro once leopard comes out, so having my music itunes-compatible already would be a great help.

one question i do have: is there a program or foobar plugin that converts replaygain into soundcheck information?

back to simplicity

 

[cooperpwc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by binkgle /img/forum/go_quote.gif one question i do have: is there a program or foobar plugin that converts replaygain into soundcheck information? back to simplicity

Doubtful. Souncheck seems to be an on-the-fly system, not based on pre-scanned and tagged information. I could be wrong about that but it certainly doesn't work very well; variations in volume are significant. (And as with all thing Apple, it's utterly opaque. Hands off, consumer!)

I've spent a month scavenging/cobbling and recoding a Foobar layout and it's now the nicest piece of software on my computer so I don't share your iTunes preference but I would also miss:
-Crossfeed
-Equaliser that doesn't mangle music (even iTunes user-controlled option; truly it's strangest shortcoming)
- Replaygain
- Ability to put my library in a shared Music folder and access it from multiple profiles while maintaining it's backup and restore integrity
- Ability to have a true shared set-up in multiple profiles
- Not having my files automatically retagged and changed in size when introduced into my music player
- Lossless CODEC support not proprietary to one company
- Ability to invoke external CODECS like Lame for conversion
- Integrated lyrics
- User control of config and components...

I admit though that iTunes handles playlists with panache.

What, you don't like my layout with switchable Album/Queue and Playlist views???

(Credit as always goes to a growing list of people that actually write code rather than scavenge and tinker.) Even you think that I have crap taste, i find it difficlult to believe that you haven't seen a nice Foobar config. There's some stunning stuff out there.

EDIT: I do admit that i never used foo-dop. I switched to Rockbox at the same time that I switched to Foobar. Biggest advantages are crossfeed, good hardware equalisation control, using same replaygain coding as Foobar, and ability to use my iPod as a true back-up for all my MP3 files (Apple just don't want to let you do that...). Disadvantage is battery life.

 

[blessingx]

For whatever it's worth, I believe iTunes on the Mac with the Dougs Applescripts, LAME-iTunes, Libra and Audio Hijack Pro (with real-time VST plugins including world best software crossfeed - Canz3D) can do all but the non-proprietary lossless part. Most of that is free, but not all. Part of the reason iTunes is loved a bit more on the Mac is not just better integration, but much more extensibility.

 

[binkgle]

I've seen some beautiful foobar configs, but I've never managed to make them look the way other people have them set up, and I always find major drawbacks. The most beautiful ones I've seen all use single columns playlist, and the scripts never deal well with songs not part of albums or incomplete albums, of which I have quite a few.

I've experimented with crossfeed, both in software and in my amp, and I've never liked it. The motion of sound from channel to channel (think Pink Floyd's On the Run track on DSOTM) is lost, and the sound is no easier to listen to for me. This is really a matter of personal preference, though.

I've also never been attracted to equalizing. I haven't experimented much, but I'd rather listen to the original sound of the song, not a eq'ed one.

I will miss replaygain, that's true.

Thankfully, I'm the only user on my computer who listens to music (my mum has an account but only browses the internet/uses email), so profiles aren't an issue.

I haven't experienced any automatic retaggings, no messing with my tagging schemes. The file size change due to the gapless playback information is so minimal as to be entirely insignificant.

I do like flac, I have to say. But if I buy a mac and a new ipod (the 3g 15 gig is showing its age in terms of scratches, battery life dropping, and the fact that I have 14 gigs more music than it can hold...) then apple lossless is no issue. and as i can't even abx 128 kbps mp3s (i certainly can abx 48 kbps stuff from hydrogen audio, but at 128 the vast majority of discrepancies disappear), this isn't really important to me beyond placebo.

As I still rip and encode all my tracks with EAC and either lame or itunes aac, I have no issues with the itunes ripping scheme. No contact = no problem

And I will never let itunes reorganize my folder structure. i'll keep foobar for tagging and organization, but general usage will be itunes

So much of this must sound like heresy to all of you who can hear better than I...

 

[cooperpwc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by binkgle /img/forum/go_quote.gif As I still rip and encode all my tracks with EAC and either lame or itunes aac, I have no issues with the itunes ripping scheme. No contact = no problem So much of this must sound like heresy to all of you who can hear better than I...

Atually, but for the crossfeed and equalisation, i couldn't claim that Foobar obviously sounds better than iTunes either. But it's also true that I have a Bithead and vintage eggos (which together sound great), not top of the line Senheisser/Grados with $1,000 DAC and amp modules...

Where I do hear a big difference is between my EAC secure Lame MP3s and the snap/crackly/pop of my old iTune AAC rips. I'm with you there!

 

[cooperpwc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by blessingx /img/forum/go_quote.gif For whatever it's worth, I believe iTunes on the Mac with the Dougs Applescripts, LAME-iTunes, Libra and Audio Hijack Pro (with real-time VST plugins including world best software crossfeed - Canz3D) can do all but the non-proprietary lossless part. Most of that is free, but not all. Part of the reason iTunes is loved a bit more on the Mac is not just better integration, but much more extensibility.

Sounds like it! I actually don't think that my Foobar crossfeed is as good as what i get in Rockbox. (Still waiting for that Aurator upgrade...) Is Canz3D avgailable for PCs? I'm going to take a look.

EDIT: It seems that Canz3D is a "someday perhaps for Windows too" tease. Damn, it does look good.

 

[stewgriff]

MP3 Gain changes the file, but in a reversible way and one that doesn't affect the sound (for me, at least). It implements ReplayGain so that the file's volume is normalized on any player, including iTunes and iPod.

I made the switch from iTunes to Foobar several weeks ago, and have found a good setup that I think I'll keep, with minor changes, for a long time. I don't really find tagging that much more difficult either, but my library (just over 1000 songs) is pretty small, although I'm adding to it all the time. Maybe I'm just easily satisfied...

 

[binkgle]

how does mp3 gain work like that? for it to be reversible it must be done with tags that itunes prob couldn't read, and to have itunes read it it would likely need to alter the file itself. what am i missing (i'm sure you're right, i just don't yet know why)?

if it does work this way (and i'm not all that opposed to applying replaygain information to the actual music as why would i not want my music replaygained), is there an equivalent for aac?

yeah, cooperpwc, i'd never trust itunes to do my rips for me. i now use omni encoder to do the encoding after eac does the ripping, using either lame or the itunes aac encoding engine, depending on whim more than anything else.

 

[blessingx]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cooperpwc /img/forum/go_quote.gif EDIT: It seems that Canz3D is a "someday perhaps for Windows too" tease. Damn, it does look good.

Yeah, "someday" doesn't couple well with "Last Updated 5/3/2003"

 

[FasterThanEver]

I gave up on iTunes because it just didn't provide the right support for classical music tags. J. River Media Center gave me what I needed:

- iTunes like browser panes that I could customize to use tags like Composer, Conductor, Sub Genre, etc.

- robust for large libraries and fast.

- integrated secure ripper and great tag editing features. I compared results with those using EAC and found no differences on files riped with confidence by EAC.

- supports Flac files

- unlike Foobar, it has the right features built in.

It is a Windows application but some mac users are reporting success running MC under BootCamp, Parallels and lately Crossover on Intel macs.

Don't give up on organizing your classical music the way you want to.

Bill

 

[Jokieman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by binkgle /img/forum/go_quote.gif how does mp3 gain work like that? for it to be reversible it must be done with tags that itunes prob couldn't read, and to have itunes read it it would likely need to alter the file itself. what am i missing (i'm sure you're right, i just don't yet know why)? if it does work this way (and i'm not all that opposed to applying replaygain information to the actual music as why would i not want my music replaygained), is there an equivalent for aac? yeah, cooperpwc, i'd never trust itunes to do my rips for me. i now use omni encoder to do the encoding after eac does the ripping, using either lame or the itunes aac encoding engine, depending on whim more than anything else.

It's reversible because it edits the MP3 file directly instead of decompressing and recompressing. So you lose absolutely 0 sound quality when editing with MP3Gain. It's an excellent piece of software, and it's free.

"8 January 2005
AACGain: Dave Lasker has added AAC support to mp3gain.exe. He wrote aacgain.exe specifically so it would work with the existing MP3GainGUI without too much trouble." ---MP3Gain website.

From the FAQ: No. MP3Gain does not decode and re-encode the mp3 to change its volume. You can change the volume as many times as you want, and the mp3 will sound just as good (or just as bad!) as it did before you started.

I'm surprised a lot of people are so slow to try it out, I actually had a guy want to argue with me over the mechanics of MP3Gain, and he hadn't even given it a try.

IMO MP3Gain should come bundled with iTunes and the iPod. heh.