[cvince]

I currently own the HF-1, and I'm contemplating the purchase of another pair of headphones (just to see what I like).

I have been quite satisfied with my HF-1s, but I still consider the grado sound a little bit too bright.
In fact, after conditioning my ears to grados, real life sounds a bit darker than I would like (or maybe I'm going deafer).

While I have grown to enjoy the brightness of the grados, the brightness justl doesn't exactly sound realistic. Accurate? yes (I don't know why people think otherwise). Realistic? I doubt it.

Anyways, I'm wondering if the cure to my hunger would be a set of AKG K701s. I've been eyeing them for a while, but I've never had a listen. From what I've read, they don't seem right for me, but please finish reading this post before offering your advice.

These are the qualities I love in my HF-1s,
-Clarity, and incredible instrument seperation
-The smootheness in the midrange
-Bass extension and "tightness" (if you can call it that).
-Comfort (yes don't look at me strange. I like the comfort because these are the lightest cans I've ever had)
-The ability to play piano, woodwind, string, and vocal solos (basically all non-complex music) that make my heart melt.

These are the qualities I like in my HF-1s
-Up-front ness presentation
-Bass "hump" (not to be confused with power).
-Brightness

These are the qualities I would most definitely like to lose:
-Over Brightness in 90% of the recordings (I like brigthtness, but there is a limit)
-Muddiness/inability to position midbass.
-Lack of low-bass power. No gusto. Doesn't move me (EQ works for this, but I want to avoid EQ cuz it messes up my soundstage).
-Ear piercing sibilance in many recordings (SSSSS SHHHH ZHHHH... AHHHHH!! OUCH!!!).
-Inability to handle complex passages with intimacy (could be attributed to limited soundstage)
-Lack of long-distance soundstage. (To clarify what I mean by this, I'll tell you that this is mostly fixed when I listen to both the HF-1s and good loudspeakers simultaneously).
-Tinnitus. My ears ring from listening too long. Likely caused by the brightness and sibilance.

I know some of these points may appear contradictory, but I don't quite know how else to explain. I will try my best to clarify my ideas if you request.

Also, I'm not sure if my lack of quality source might be a cause for some of these symptoms. I'm running a gilmore lite directly off my MSI integrated soundcard (sometimes I run them off my DVD player), so I haven't heard my HF-1s on a proper source yet.

I love the gilmore lite, so I'm not looking to change my amp. However, I am willing to exercise the idea of changing my headphones if a source upgrade won't make a stark enough difference.

Now you are probably thinking:
"why is the crazy guy wanting the K701?"

Well, my reason is that conditioning my ears is an important thing for enjoyment. Unlike the HF-1s, which I liked quite a lot upon first hearing (I attribute it to a one-night stand), If I can condition myself to like the K701s, I really have a feeling that it's something I won't be able to let go (I attribute it to a marriage). Not to mention, I'm probably the only person in the world who thinks the K701s are the nicest looking headphones in existence (the toilet bowl comment insults me every time).

What do you think?

 

[warpdriver]

It's hard to predict, but I do think there is value in your trying out of the K701s for some of the reasons you want.

The 701 doesn't have much (or any) bass hump and can sound thin at times. It doesn't hide sibilance from recordings but is better than a lot of Grados in that regard.

But coming from the SR225 and citing many of the same complaints as you, I find relative happiness in the K701....until something new comes along

However, definitely look at your source, it's not doing you any favours. A Micro DAC is my recommendation there.

 

[Jahn]

you know, the NYC Portables meet had both an HF-1 and a K701 there with a nice collection of portable DAC and amps. I actually came away enjoying both cans with all sorts of combos there. It's not a bad 1-2 punch and they will definitely compliment each other with different but pleasing signatures.

 

[wolfen68]

The 701's are nice cans and worth a try. Even as a big Grado fan, I liked them during the short listen I had.

Your comments on the HF-1 lead me to wonder two things:

1. Have you tried a better source? The HF-1's aren't ultra high end, but they're definitely good enough to resolve differences (and achieve gains)with better sources. Also, what is your source material? Are they poorly encoded mp3's? Had to ask.....

2. Consider trying Senn modded pads on your HF-1, they may help with some of your issues.

I really like the HF-1's, but I agree that on some complex packages things tend to meld together. It sounds fine musically, but I really noticed this one issue after I heard an RS-2 doing it better.

 

[slindeman]

First of all, I think you should investigate a new source and possibly amp. I never experience sibilance with HF-1, nor do I consider it a very bright or fatiguing headphone. If you really want to hurt yourself try SR-225 or SR-325. HF-1 is by far the most mellow of the current Grado SR/RS series. I personally recommend non oversampling DACs and Tube amps.

Second of all, the K701, in my experience, is brighter and more sibilant than HF-1. I compared them extensively over the 40 day period in which I owned both and used both at work. The K701 also has less bass than the HF-1, sounding thin and without body in comparison.

Third of all, the things you describe that you want, such as low bass power, a soundstage with depth, better handling of complex passages, less brightness -- those make me immediately think of HD650, which is another headphone I had at the same time as HF-1 and K701. HD650 does everything you describe, but not without a very good source and amp.

In any case, I would recommend not selling the HF-1 until after you know for sure that you prefer another headphone to it.

 

[cvince]

Quote:

Originally Posted by slindeman First of all, I think you should investigate a new source and possibly amp.

I know my source sucks, but you are the second person to suggest a new amp.

Is the Gilmore Lite that bad? I bought it because I hear it has an excellent synergy with grado cans, and I personally like it very much. Would the Dared MP-5 (tube) be any better with grado cans?

Also, if I'm getting the K701, wouldn't the grado amp be ideal because of its "flatness"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by slindeman Third of all, the things you describe that you want, such as low bass power, a soundstage with depth, better handling of complex passages, less brightness -- those make me immediately think of HD650, which is another headphone I had at the same time as HF-1 and K701. HD650 does everything you describe, but not without a very good source and amp. In any case, I would recommend not selling the HF-1 until after you know for sure that you prefer another headphone to it.

Actually I've never considered the HD650 before. I've heard them for about 2 minutes, but I wasn't listening critically. I heard they have a low-treble slump (7k-10k). I didn't hear them long enough to notice the negative effects of this slump, so I don't know how that will impact my listening experience in the long run.

I don't intend on selling the HF-1. As much as I hate it, I also love it to bits and I can't imagine letting it go.

 

[Jahn]

if you like your can and amp together, don't break it up. but i would look into a source, and try some nicely recorded redbook CDs to check for where the weak link in your chain really is.

 

[cvince]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jahn if you like your can and amp together, don't break it up. but i would look into a source, and try some nicely recorded redbook CDs to check for where the weak link in your chain really is.

Thanks for the replies Jahn. To me, your opinions are golden. (seriously.. with a sig like that, who could ever go wrong getting advice from you?)

I will definitely look into a new source.

I've been eyeing the Zhaolu D2.x for ages now. I have some very nicely recorded stuff (familiar with verve?), and I know that 60% of the problem lies in my collection of mp3s. However, there are some incredibly good recordings I have that still sound more sibilant than usual.

Lets just say I know what to expect from a good recording, and I know what to expect from a bad one.
The good recordings don't exactly meet my expectations yet.

 

[slindeman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cvince I know my source sucks, but you are the second person to suggest a new amp. Is the Gilmore Lite that bad? I bought it because I hear it has an excellent synergy with grado cans, and I personally like it very much. Would the Dared MP-5 (tube) be any better with grado cans?

I've never heard the Gilmore Lite. However, I have heard many amps in that price range and so far I've preferred Tube and Tube Hybrid amps by a large margin over SS amps. If you've never tried a tube amp it may be worth looking into just to see.

 

[cvince]

Quote:

Originally Posted by slindeman I've never heard the Gilmore Lite. However, I have heard many amps in that price range and so far I've preferred Tube and Tube Hybrid amps by a large margin over SS amps. If you've never tried a tube amp it may be worth looking into just to see.

I've tried my HF-1s on the very cheap LDII.

That amp was as 1-dimensional as you could get. Heck, my lousy sony reciever has better depth and soundstage.

But boy oh boy.. the midrange was sweetness. I could have excused the faults it if it weren't for the microphonics. The tubes picked up every jostle or shake on the table.

I tend to prefer SS amps over tubes because of the fastness and tightness. I've never heard hybrids though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by slindeman If you really want to hurt yourself try SR-225 or SR-325. HF-1 is by far the most mellow of the current Grado SR/RS series. I personally recommend non oversampling DACs and Tube amps.

SR80s were the first good phones I bought. The first thing I posted about here was on how painful they were to listen to. Back then I didn't know the terminology for "brightness", but ever since I've been picking up on info by reading head-fi on an almost daily basis. Going with grado, I figure I've been placed in the wrong boat straight from the get-go, but really I'm learning to enjoy it.

I thought the HF-1s would be less sibilant (which is why i bought them). To an extent they are warmer, and the highs more detailed, but the highs have also become sharper.

 

[Kees]

Why don't you check out the new DT990? I think they'll fit your bill perfectly. They can be had for a decent price too.

 

[silence57]

 

[MD1032]

Want a free upgrade for your HF-1? Flat pads! I can't imagine listening to mine with bowls every day. Compared to flats it's insanely fatiguing.

Coming from my HF-1, I was disappointed with the K701. Great detail, no bass.

 

[dw6928]

odd, when I migrated from 225s to 701s, I found the bass not only present but much more refined. Month after month that I have owned the 701s, my admiration has only grown for their purity and extraordinary clarity. They seem to get better all the time and when the source is extraodinary, they soar!

 

[Meyvn]

I think the things you describe that you dislike in the HF-1 will be largely fixed in the K701, ESPECIALLY that part about complex passages; I've experienced this exactly problem with Grados. I'll be listening to something, and an awesome moment is about to come up, and then BAM! the Grado just congests it. The K701 is much more comfortable than Grados, has an infinitely larger soundstage, and is easier on the highs and sibilance without being at all veiled. The midrange is pretty much perfect on them, too; good female vocals just totally kick my ass with them.