[gregorio]

Your question shows your problem. You have no facts, its just your opinion.

It's just my opinion that my job exists? What about the tens of thousands of others round the world who do the same job and all those who employ us, don't they exist or do they only exist because of my opinion? What about the basic facts of digital audio, analogue signals and how we hear/perceive, you think all the science, text books and all the teaching in universities around the world is just my opinion too, even the science and text books published before I was born? It's basic facts, it's verifiable!

[1] Somehow I found this particular post funny. Differences between these DAP devices are largely opinion driven. On paper they all look remarkably similar when it comes to frequency response. So the difference between units is often more subjective than not.
[1a] What is objective is power ratings and impedance;
[1b] what is subjective is how you feel about the results from those facts.
[2] At some level, you do have to trust your ears because on paper what should sound good may not (true for DAP units and IEMs).
[2a] I once had a Pioneer high end surround receiver that on paper was the top of the line. But after about one hour of listening, for me that unit was like screechy chalk. Was it due to higher level distortion? Who knows.
[2b] But I got rid of it and went with Denon and that solved the problem.
[3] Did you know that TV showrooms turn up brightness and other factors to unnatural levels?
[3a] Your job as a consumer is to level out the settings and then make an informed choice.
[4] Same is true for loudspeakers. Speakers that sound good in the store are often horrid once you get them home. They are actually designed to sound good in open spaces not well defined spaces like a living room.

1. Sorry, I don't understand? As I agree that decently designed DACs all measure very similarly and therefore the differences are mostly subjective opinions, what is it that you find "funny", what your yourself have stated?
1a. Obviously the digital audio data and the analogue output signals are both entirely objective too. Output power and impedance however is an objective property that can vary significantly between DAPs. Therefore, HPs/IEMs that (for example) have a lower impedance than the DAP's output can change the DAP's analogue output signal significantly enough to be audible but obviously, as that change is caused by the HPs/IEMs it's a HP/IEM issue, not a DAC/DAP issue. And, this change, if it occurs, is entirely measurable and objective, not subjective.
1b. Exactly! "How you feel" is of course a determination that occurs in your brain and therefore obviously cannot be measured in the analogue output signal of a DAC/DAP.

2. If the analogue output of two DAPs measure "very similarly" to each other (effectively identical within the thresholds of human hearing) and relative to the digital content they're converting, then by definition they both have audibly perfect fidelity and are audibly indistinguishable. If one (or both) doesn't "sound good" to someone, then either they've got a problem with their downstream reproduction equipment or a problem with their perception.
2a. "Who knows" is anyone who performs a relatively simple measurement. You'd need a great deal of distortion in order for the output to sound like "screechy chalk", it would be extremely obvious in any measurement. Such a large amount of distortion is unheard of in modern equipment, unless it's a faulty unit, some inappropriate setting has been selected or there's a serious problem with the downstream equipment (such as speakers with an impedance mismatch for example).
2b. Personally, I would've found out if there really were such a large amount of distortion or if it was just a trick of my perception. If there was such a large amount of distortion, I would have tried to ascertain what was causing it, an inappropriate setting or a faulty unit and requested a replacement if it were the latter.

3. Yes, in fact most modern TVs have a "showroom" mode.
3a. In the case of DACs/DAPs there are pretty much no audible settings to "level out", with the exception of turning off EQ if it's available and the output volume. It's surprising how many people perform listening comparisons without matching the volume!

4. Loudspeaker are not the same, I don't know of any loudspeakers that have a "showroom" mode and a home use mode. And of course, consumer speakers are "actually designed to sound good" in consumer environments, that's why they're consumer speakers (as opposed to say studio monitors for example). Different makes/models of consumer speaker achieve that goal with varying levels of success but if "speakers sound good in the store" but "horrid when once you get them home", then either your perception is playing tricks on you, you have purchased the wrong speakers for the size of your room and listening position, have setup the speakers incorrectly or have serious issues with your room's acoustics.

[1] Id assume the op meant wich player has the most lifelike sound/realistic.
[1a] This is what people usualy mean when they say they want a digital device that sounds analog.
[2] And no digititus.
[3] For me this is dx220 with amp8ex. Wm1z could be better. Cayin n8 is definetly right there aswell.

1. That's my point (or points). DAPs don't have a more realistic or lifelike sound, how would a DAP even know what "realistic" or "lifelike" is, let alone what processing to apply to achieve it? All they do is store digital audio data and then convert it into an analogue signal. How realistic/lifelike that output sounds depends on what the musicians/engineers put into that digital data to start with and how we individually perceive the resultant output of our transducers.
1a. Which doesn't make any sense because when we listen to actual real sound there is no analogue distortion. There's no tape saturation, no valve distortion and no surface noise or pops/crackles from vinyl for example, unless we're listing to a gig with say an electric guitar with valve distortion or a DJ playing vinyl but of course a digital recording of such a gig would contain that distortion.

2. There's really no such thing a "digititus", it seems to be a term invented by audiophile marketers. "Digititus" is effectively nothing, it doesn't exist, it's the lack of audible analogue distortion.

3. DACs/DAPs do not add audible analogue distortion (tape saturation and hiss, vinyl wow/flutter, pops/crackles, surface noise or valve distortion). Any that did, would be pretty seriously defective and I've never heard of a DAC/DAP that's so defective ... not even the earliest CD players were that defective!

G

 

[maira]

All they do is store digital audio data and then convert it into an analogue signal.

This is just a laugh. Seems you like to troll....

 

[gregorio]

This is just a laugh. Seems you like to troll....

So are you saying a Digital Audio Player (DAP) doesn't store digital audio data and convert it into an analogue signal (on playback)? Do you think that a DAP does something other than store and playback digital audio (apart from a few file management functions) and if so, why is it called a DAP?

Again, how are the simple, fundamental facts "just a laugh" or "trolling", except maybe to someone trying to peddle false information that's contrary to the actual facts?

G

 

[darkarth]

I think the main reason why digital music is the mainstream standard today is because of practical things. More quality from the technical side, easier to transport massive data on mobile devices and so on.

But digital sound never were a perfect replacement for analogue sound for every people. The sound is quite different and both has its pros and cons. Digital sound has much more potential for details and being clean but it always felt more flat and dead compared to analogue. But in todays world many people also want apps, music streaming and other things.

Today there is a big market of people that are searching for the best compromise that brings the best of both worlds together. Some helps themselves with software but I prefer hardware-based solutions.

The best solution for me is the Cayin N3Pro as a "used" condition to make it a bit cheapier.

The Cayin N8 and the N3Pro are using tubes as amplifier that brings us pretty near to good analogue sound and makes them very unique.

The size of N3Pro is also pants-pocket-compatible and the price is between 300 and 600 bucks (depending on the condition). It also supports replaygain, usb-dac and remote control, which I like very much.

The catch is there is no wifi support and no open android OS. So streaming and apps are not possible. But I never used that anyway.

Another option would the 3 iBassos: 150, 200 and 220. With the AMP9. It uses tubes as well.

Also good work came from Acoustic Research. The AR-M2 and the little brother AR-M20, which had their very own way to create something analogue-wise. And they are using Android. Third party apps like spotify or tidal are working, as well as replaygain. Unfortunetly it seems like they are not supporting and building players anymore. And you have to go to the used market to find some.

As User "Raketen" mentioned, Sony did a good job , too. But Sony always has been to quiet for me. Have to say that I'm using over ears only. Don't know how they works with IEMs.

I guess there are also some good players from FiiO, Cowon... But to get the true good sound, you have to pay a bit more.

For more inspiration I can recommend this thread here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rank-the-best-sounding-daps-that-you-heard.936707/