[torifile]

I have a question I am not able to structure well enough to get any good search results back on so maybe I can get some answers here...

I have a Peachtree nova65SE for my integrated DAC/Amp solution right now. I’m using the nova to power my speakers and manage my input sources. It’s got just enough input options for what I need and I’m happy with the power it provides my speakers. I’m currently using it for my headphones (currently Aeon Flow Closed) as well. I’m not 100% sure I love it for that purpose but it works now. It’s got one pre-out.

I’m getting a Jotunheim in a couple of days. I was planning on using the pre-out from the nova to feed into the Jot. My question is: will the speakers mute when I have headphones plugged in?

Secondarily, is there a better solution to my problem? My sources are: optical from my TV (which is connected to my Apple TV, PS4 and Nintendo Switch), COAX from my Raspberry Pi (my primary music source) and analog line-in from my turntable. I need the output to feed my speakers (KEF Q100) and my headphones. I’m happy to try other options/setups if they would be better for my situation.

I’ve previously tried the Emotiva PT-100 and A-100 but the A-100 has so much hissing, I had to send them back. I liked the A-100 in theory because it powered both my speakers and headphones. I’ve also had an AVR feeding an amp using zone 2 from the AVR but I didn’t like that setup because it was a little fiddly and the AVR was overkill for me - I don’t need any of the video features.

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

I’m getting a Jotunheim in a couple of days. I was planning on using the pre-out from the nova to feed into the Jot. My question is: will the speakers mute when I have headphones plugged in?

Very likely not. It's a variable preamp output and unlike muting between speaker and headphone output, this isn't something the amp can detect, ie, when you plug in or unplug a headphone. In other gear there should be a witch for it, like the selector for headphone amp, preamped, or direct from DAC line output on AudioGD gear, but looking at the buttons on the Nova65SE, they're only labeled to select inputs.

Also, even if it mutes, you have one big problem - the Nova65SE's line output is a preamp output that goes all the way up to 6volts. You're going to have to do a balancing act of setting its preamp to around 2volts, or hook it up to the balanced inputs and try to get around 4volts.

Secondarily, is there a better solution to my problem? My sources are: optical from my TV (which is connected to my Apple TV, PS4 and Nintendo Switch), COAX from my Raspberry Pi (my primary music source) and analog line-in from my turntable. I need the output to feed my speakers (KEF Q100) and my headphones. I’m happy to try other options/setups if they would be better for my situation.

Normally, integrating a headphone amp with an integrated amplifier for speakers would be by connecting the former to the latter's Tape Out/Rec Loop. That takes in any input signals and sends them out even with the integrated amplifier switched off, so basically to switch over you just power down (or turn the volume all the way down on) the integrated amp. However your need for digital inputs might make this complicated. There are older NAD amps that have the optional DAC module and still have Rec/Tape output (C37x I think), but these have been phased out in favor of DAC-IntAmps that no longer have the Tape/Rec outputs though with more digital inputs plus subwoofer outputs, though they still maintained the MM phono inputs (even the compact D3020v2 now has that).

The other normal option would be a DAC-HPamp-Preamp unit, and then use a dedicated speaker power amp (ie no preamp stage built in). Something like an AudioGD R2R-11 will take in all your digital inputs, which can feed a preamp signal to something like an Emotiva BassX 100, but then you'd lose the phono input.


Your remaining options boil down to:

1. A separate DAC unit with all the digital inputs you need, plus a headphone amp with two analogue inputs (one for the DAC, one for a dedicated phono pre), plus a dedicated power amp to drive your speakers. The problem here is that, while you maintain speakers you already like which seems like a safe option, you end up with four separate active electronics in place of the Nova65SE and your phono pre (assuming this isn't built into your TT), not to mention that dedicated power amps are very bulky units that have way more power than you need for those speakers in a relatively small room (not that they'd work well sitting too far from them in a larger room as the bass response drops the farther you sit), and the few low power units are either Class A amps with small PCBs but with gigantic heatsinks (because Class A) like the First Watt amps, or similarly expensive though compact dedicated Class D power amps. If you have any DIY inclinations you could get a Class D amp kit and either not install a preamp circuit or disable it if built into the PCB.

2. Just get a headphone with higher sensitivity and not too high nor too low nominal impedance to use with the Nova65SE, that way you won't need the Jotunheim. Something like a Sennheiser HD660S, which has 98dB at 1mW sensitivity and 150ohms impedance. Problem here is that it will limit your headphone options, and if it turns out you don't like the HD660S (or HD700, Massdrop-Sennheiser HD58X, etc), you don't have a wide pool of headphones to choose from.

3. Ditch both the Nova65SE and your current speakers and get a DAC that will work with the Jotunheim. Just note that it's a different chassis that is only roughly the size of the Bifrost for example, or you can also use the Modi2 Multibit. Get Schiit Sys to split and select input between the DAC and a phono preamp into the SE input of the Jotunheim, then replace the speakers with powered monitors. Problem with this option is that you still end up with four separate boxes over the Nova65SE and your phono pre (assuming this isn't built into your TT). On top of that, you need to have a separate and isolated, noise suppressing power strip for the powered monitors, which will require separate power inputs into each speaker if you use symmetrical professional monitor designs, which are also vulnerable to ground loop noise.

4. Don't order/cancel the order for the Jotunheim. Get a DAC-HPamp-Preamp unit that has all the digital inputs and an analogue input for your phono pre/TT, and replace the Q100 with powered monitors. Something like the AudioGD NFB-28 will work, then pick a powered monitor, though note the need for separate power inputs and even then there's the vulnerability to ground loop.

5. Alternately, you can get a separate DAC with all the digital inputs you need and a separate HPamp with two inputs - one for the DAC and one for your phono pre/TT - and preamp output to the powered monitors.

You can simplify option 3, 4, and 5 by getting consumer grade, asymmetrical design powered speakers that have a Master amp with all the active electronics and a passive Slave unit, like the various Hi-Vi, Edifiers, and Audioengine A5+. They are less vulnerable to ground loop, and you can always just use either the Jotunheim or NFB-29 RCA preamp outputs (the pro monitors are best used via the Balanced outputs; consumer monitors tend to not come with balanced inputs).

 

[torifile]

First, thanks for the detailed reply!

Second. Really? What I’m asking is that complicated?!? Is this all because of the TT?

I might just revert back to the AVR solution I had before but then I don’t know the quality of the DAC in those. Or I might just decide to go with separate headphone and speaker solutions entirely.

 

[torifile]

Very likely not. It's a variable preamp output and unlike muting between speaker and headphone output, this isn't something the amp can detect, ie, when you plug in or unplug a headphone. In other gear there should be a witch for it, like the selector for headphone amp, preamped, or direct from DAC line output on AudioGD gear, but looking at the buttons on the Nova65SE, they're only labeled to select inputs.

Also, even if it mutes, you have one big problem - the Nova65SE's line output is a preamp output that goes all the way up to 6volts. You're going to have to do a balancing act of setting its preamp to around 2volts, or hook it up to the balanced inputs and try to get around 4volts.




Normally, integrating a headphone amp with an integrated amplifier for speakers would be by connecting the former to the latter's Tape Out/Rec Loop. That takes in any input signals and sends them out even with the integrated amplifier switched off, so basically to switch over you just power down (or turn the volume all the way down on) the integrated amp. However your need for digital inputs might make this complicated. There are older NAD amps that have the optional DAC module and still have Rec/Tape output (C37x I think), but these have been phased out in favor of DAC-IntAmps that no longer have the Tape/Rec outputs though with more digital inputs plus subwoofer outputs, though they still maintained the MM phono inputs (even the compact D3020v2 now has that).

The other normal option would be a DAC-HPamp-Preamp unit, and then use a dedicated speaker power amp (ie no preamp stage built in). Something like an AudioGD R2R-11 will take in all your digital inputs, which can feed a preamp signal to something like an Emotiva BassX 100, but then you'd lose the phono input.


Your remaining options boil down to:

1. A separate DAC unit with all the digital inputs you need, plus a headphone amp with two analogue inputs (one for the DAC, one for a dedicated phono pre), plus a dedicated power amp to drive your speakers. The problem here is that, while you maintain speakers you already like which seems like a safe option, you end up with four separate active electronics in place of the Nova65SE and your phono pre (assuming this isn't built into your TT), not to mention that dedicated power amps are very bulky units that have way more power than you need for those speakers in a relatively small room (not that they'd work well sitting too far from them in a larger room as the bass response drops the farther you sit), and the few low power units are either Class A amps with small PCBs but with gigantic heatsinks (because Class A) like the First Watt amps, or similarly expensive though compact dedicated Class D power amps. If you have any DIY inclinations you could get a Class D amp kit and either not install a preamp circuit or disable it if built into the PCB.

2. Just get a headphone with higher sensitivity and not too high nor too low nominal impedance to use with the Nova65SE, that way you won't need the Jotunheim. Something like a Sennheiser HD660S, which has 98dB at 1mW sensitivity and 150ohms impedance. Problem here is that it will limit your headphone options, and if it turns out you don't like the HD660S (or HD700, Massdrop-Sennheiser HD58X, etc), you don't have a wide pool of headphones to choose from.

3. Ditch both the Nova65SE and your current speakers and get a DAC that will work with the Jotunheim. Just note that it's a different chassis that is only roughly the size of the Bifrost for example, or you can also use the Modi2 Multibit. Get Schiit Sys to split and select input between the DAC and a phono preamp into the SE input of the Jotunheim, then replace the speakers with powered monitors. Problem with this option is that you still end up with four separate boxes over the Nova65SE and your phono pre (assuming this isn't built into your TT). On top of that, you need to have a separate and isolated, noise suppressing power strip for the powered monitors, which will require separate power inputs into each speaker if you use symmetrical professional monitor designs, which are also vulnerable to ground loop noise.

4. Don't order/cancel the order for the Jotunheim. Get a DAC-HPamp-Preamp unit that has all the digital inputs and an analogue input for your phono pre/TT, and replace the Q100 with powered monitors. Something like the AudioGD NFB-28 will work, then pick a powered monitor, though note the need for separate power inputs and even then there's the vulnerability to ground loop.

5. Alternately, you can get a separate DAC with all the digital inputs you need and a separate HPamp with two inputs - one for the DAC and one for your phono pre/TT - and preamp output to the powered monitors.

You can simplify option 3, 4, and 5 by getting consumer grade, asymmetrical design powered speakers that have a Master amp with all the active electronics and a passive Slave unit, like the various Hi-Vi, Edifiers, and Audioengine A5+. They are less vulnerable to ground loop, and you can always just use either the Jotunheim or NFB-29 RCA preamp outputs (the pro monitors are best used via the Balanced outputs; consumer monitors tend to not come with balanced inputs).

What about the Emotiva Ta-100? It says it has line level out. Would that work? It has all the inputs I need and the speaker amplifier.

 

[torifile]

What about the Emotiva Ta-100? It says it has line level out. Would that work? It has all the inputs I need and the speaker amplifier.

I just went ahead and ordered the TA-100. Free prime shipping and they had a “like new” one. I figure if it doesn’t do what I need it to, I’ll just return it.

The lit on the TA says you can use it as a pre-amp for an amplifier so I’m optimistic it’ll work.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Second. Really? What I’m asking is that complicated?!? Is this all because of the TT?

I wouldn't solely put it on the TT but it's just hard to get digital inputs, phono inputs (if your TT has no built in phono pre) or a second analogue input for headphones. The latter is due to how all this developed, or rather, boomed - we were clearly in the peak of digital audio and even as CDs decline there's streaming and locally stored music. Even with analogue making a comeback it has more to do with people using speakers and not necessarily using headphones as part of the reference system. When they do, the mere fact that they have space to store all those vinyls tends to mean they have no space restrictions, and use the kind of gear that can route signals from several sources out to both headphones and speakers.

An example of that would be how you can have a giant, more traditional integrated amp (if not a preamp and power amp) which can take inputs from digital (CDP or DACs) and analogue source devices, but then still have the Rec Out. In your case the Peachtree not having that is the main problem, and now we're at the tail end of that being a thing too because even NAD has removed it from their larger DAC-IntAmps or Digital (input Integrated) Amps (which in the early 90s would have been designated as "receivers").

Looking at the problem another way is how you're using passive speakers, which in terms of minimizing the number or size of components while maintaining headphone and speaker use, isn't the best strategy compared to powered monitors (since it can be assumed the headphone cable to chair distance means you're not sitting in a speaker-focused environment anyway), but then even this stumbles on the TT input.

I might just revert back to the AVR solution I had before but then I don’t know the quality of the DAC in those.

I wouldn't worry about the DAC performance on the AVRs - their size relative to how much of them you'd actually use would be a bigger concern, plus line outs aren't all that easy to come by on newer units.

What about the Emotiva Ta-100? It says it has line level out. Would that work? It has all the inputs I need and the speaker amplifier.

If it's a fixed voltage line level (ie not preamp controlled, worse if it's an active preamp output since that goes well above 2volts on single ended), then it can feed a fixed voltage line level signal to a headphone amp, which has its own preamp stage. However...

I just went ahead and ordered the TA-100. Free prime shipping and they had a “like new” one. I figure if it doesn’t do what I need it to, I’ll just return it.

The lit on the TA says you can use it as a pre-amp for an amplifier so I’m optimistic it’ll work.

...it doesn't look like a Fixed Voltage Line Output. When not otherwise specified, "Preamp Output" means Variable (voltage) Output. That means hooking up a headphone amp there will have two preamps in the signal chain and you have to match the output level to the 2v that the input sensitivity of headphone amps tend to be designed for (apart from 4v balanced inputs). On top of that, Emotiva's product page states that the line output voltage is 4volts, and clearly states that it's for use as a preamp.

You might as well cancel that order right now and save yourself the return shipping and repacking fees because this is not how to integrate a headphone amp in there.

Or I might just decide to go with separate headphone and speaker solutions entirely.

If you only use the headphones with the TT this will be easy - you just move the TT and Jotunheim together.

Otherwise you'll end up doubling everything. You might as well just either 1) switch to powered monitors so all you need is a preamp output to them or 2) use a pure power amp on the speakers.

Again, on the first option, you can get the AudioGD NFB-28 or NFB-29. All your digital sources will have an input to the NFB-2x DAC stage, but these have analogue inputs that bypasses the DAC stage and goes into the preamp and headphone amp stage. You then just send out a preamp signal from the NFB-2x to the speakers. The most complicated part here will be setting the gain structure on two symmetrical monitors, but some have notches on the knob movement apart from the markings so this will be a bit easier. One bonus of this is that symmetrical pro monitors and some consumer monitors have a bi-amplification set-up with independent channels driving the tweeters, which also means there is at least a separate relative gain knob for the tweeters. That means you can tailor the sound to your room and preference a bit. Too bright and you can't fix it using toe-in/out angles without sacrifices in other areas? Set the tweeter amp to -2dB.

If you opt to use a pure power amp, you either get a DIY Class D amp to keep size and costs down, or might as well get a huge and not too expensive Emotiva. Output can be overkill for the speakers now, but if you can move the seat farther back (if you aren't sitting at least 2m away already), you can upgrade to multiple driver towers later and not have to change the amp (unless you get an 82dB/1mW Dynaudio or something).

 

[Oscar-HiFi]

What about the Emotiva Ta-100? It says it has line level out. Would that work? It has all the inputs I need and the speaker amplifier.

The TA-100 won't work for what you want, the Onkyo A-9010 would work though.

 

[torifile]

I was able to cancel the TA-100 and ordered an Onkyo A-9050 (I couldn’t find an A-9010). I made sure there is a tape out so I *think* it’ll work for me. Both the Onkyo and the Schiit will be here Saturday so we’ll see how it all works! Thanks for all the help. (I still can’t believe this was so complicated!)

 

[Oscar-HiFi]

I was able to cancel the TA-100 and ordered an Onkyo A-9050 (I couldn’t find an A-9010). I made sure there is a tape out so I *think* it’ll work for me. Both the Onkyo and the Schiit will be here Saturday so we’ll see how it all works! Thanks for all the help. (I still can’t believe this was so complicated!)

The A-9050 will be fine, use the line-out on the back into the Schiit

 

[torifile]

Got the Onkyo and Jot today. They’re all hooked up and working exactly as I need them to be. Thanks for all the help. My AFC sound so much better, even at similar volumes. Luckily my Peachtree was bought direct from their ebay store and they have a 30 day return policy. In the end, I’m out about $20 for shipping since the Onkyo + Jot were the same price as the nova.

Win-win.