[eric65]

Well, the second chance given to the DEKONI Elite Hybrid HE pads used with the COSMO headphone was short-lived.

Let me explain.

I've only done one test this morinig (in France), listening to the Bach cello suites played by Yo-Yo Ma, a SONY recording which emphasizes the string sound of the cello more than the body sound of the instrument, and which can quite quickly become unpleasant to hear with certain headphones that are badly balanced for the tone.

On this Bach cello suites (see video below) I compared the Sennheiser HD-400 pro (one of my references for headphone tone) with the COSMO re-equipped with the DEKONI's Elite hybrid HE pads and with the same COSMO re-equipped with the PARA's hybrid pads.



With the Sennheiser HD-400 Pro, the sound of the cello is pleasant to listen to, highlighting the sound of the cello strings very well, with a slight highlighting of the instrument's strings in the high frequencies (4.5 KHz), which is not unpleasant to my ear ; the depth of the cello is very much present: the bass is not shortened at all with the HD-400 Pro.

With the COSMO re-equipped with the DEKONI's Elite hybrid HE pads, I have a problem: the sound is less pleasant to hear than with the HD-400 Pro, there's a coloration of the cello sound at 800 Hz that makes listening unpleasant and overshadows the bass and treble of the cello, which are in the background. In my opinion, the sound of the cello is unbalanced by this bump in level at 800 Hz, too mid-centric, making this instrument unpleasant to listen to.

With the COSMO re-equipped with the PARA's hybrid pads, listening to the cello becomes much more pleasant than with the DEKONI Eliite hybrid HE pads: the level hump at 800 Hz is attenuated, and the cello's treble (between 2 and 4.5 kHz) is less recessed; the bass also comes out better (less mid-centric sound) than with the DEKONI Elite hybrid HE pads.

In conclusion, after listening to the Bach cello suites played by Yo-Yo Ma.

Listening pleasure: COSMO with PARA's hybrid pads > Sennheiser HD-400 Pro > COSMO with DEKONI Elite Hybrid HE pads.

Tonal accuracy (hear): COSMO with PARA's hybrid pads > Sennheiser HD-400 Pro > COSMO with DEKONI Elite Hybrid HE pads.

Sound stage opening: COSMO with PARA's hybrid pads > Sennheiser HD-400 Pro > COSMO with DEKONI Elite Hybrid HE pads.

For me, a headphone that sounds bad with a cello is a redhibitory factor; it won't sound good with any other musical instrument.

I'll stop here with my comparison of headphones and test of pads for the COSMO; personally, I'm keeping the PARA's hybrid pads to re-equip my COSMO; the COSMO's stock pads being bad in every way, and the DEKONI Elite hybrid HE pads don't suit me, especially after listening to the cello, for me a crucial test to evaluate a headphone: unpleasant cello sound, for my hearing, with the DEKONI's pads; I won't go any further.

Spoiler

Sennheiser HD600 (2021) (green baseline) = Reference headphones chosen for FR (= 0 dB relative) between 80 Hz and 10 KHz.

Moondrop COSMO (stock pads). Bad tone !

Sennheiser HD-400 Pro. Another Reference headphone for FR with a little coquetry in the high-pitched at 4.5 KHz range.

Moondrop COSMO re-equipped with the DEKONI Elite Hybrid HE pads.
Level bump at 800 Hz, making the cello sound a little too mid-centric and not very pleasant to listen to for the tone.

Moondrop COSMO re-equipped with the PARA's hybrid pads.
Listening to the cello more complete, more airy and less mid-centric, more pleasant to hear than with the DEKONI Elite Hybrid HE pads, which are more mid-centric and confined for the sound stage.

 

[eric65]

Hello everyone.

I'm going to make a smooth musical transition here, moving from JS Bach's cello suites to Led Zeppelin, with a cover of the track Kashmir that's very interesting to listen to on headphones.



My musical choices are as eclectic as my headphones.

The headphones I listened to on this Led Zeppelin video are the VENUS and the COSMO re-equipped with the PARA's hybrid pads (nb: I won't be using any other pads).

And what's the result?

Both headphones are very pleasant to listen to.

The VENUS, with its more V-shaped signature than that of the COSMO equipped with the PARA's hybrid pads, brings out the best in Sina's bass-drum drums, which are punchy and clear-cut.
Brass instruments and cymbals are quite typed and colorful.
The singer's voice is a little too much in the background on this recording, which is a pity, as her voice is very beautiful and suave.

With the COSMO re-equipped with the PARA's hybrid pads, the sound is more balanced and complete than that of the VENUS, and also more detailed and fluid; it's less sliced, less “raw” than that of the VENUS. Everything flows naturally. It's more natural.
Brass and cymbals also sound sound more accurate in tone (more in tune), with more finesse and delicacy.
The female singer's voice is better represented; she's no longer in the background; she's well balanced in relation to the musical instruments (strings and brass on one side and Sina's drums on the other).
The voice is also reproduced with greater detail, nuance, inflection and smoothness (more suave) than with the VENUS, which is more “raw” and puts the voice more in the background.

In short, I like both headphones a lot, but in the end I like the COSMO even more on this recording, with all the little extras it brings, for the better, compared with the VENUS ; VENUS which, however, is'nt unworthy, far from it.

 

[vicenzajay]

Just a note here to agree with Eric about the need for everyone to feel free to 'experiment' with pads, etc. Each person's experience is probably going to be different in this case.

For me - with just the Venus here (I formerly also owned the Para headphones, but they are now sold and elsewhere) - the Dekoni pads are a *clear improvement over the stock pads. The imaging and resolution are markedly better (and not by just a little bit). The positioning and layering of instruments are significantly cleaner and the overall listening experience is more 3D as a result.

Add that to the fact that they are much more comfortable than the stock pads (with the velour against the skin), and this was a worthwhile upgrade for me. I am going to have to swap them out for a new pair, though, Dekoni has agreed to send a new pair once I send these back (as a result of the pad thickness disparity with these).

 

[vicenzajay]

Since I'm in this deep on the Venus, I'm deciding to also try another hybrid pad set with dimensions even better than the Dekoni pads for the Moondrop Venus. They should arrive tomorrow evening, and after a couple of days of listening with them installed, I'll report back with details here.

 

[vicenzajay]

Yeah - never mind. They came in - looked nice (fenestrated inside, velour cap, PU leather outside) but the mounting ring of material was WAY too ample to allow anything approaching Venus' size installation. I doubt these would work on anything over 80mm in outside diameter (maybe even less).

Back they go....I'll just wait for the Dekoni replacements.

 

[eric65]

Hello everyone.

In search of the most technically and tonally advanced headphones, I went in search of recognized references in terms of technicality and tonality for headphones.

To compare what is comparable (planar headphone in this case), I think the Hifiman Susvara is one of the most technically accomplished planar headphones.

As the resolution of a planar headphones depends to a large extent on the moving mass set in motion (integrating the mass of the planar membrane as well as the metal traces deposited on this membrane), I have demonstrated that the COSMO was very close to the Susvara in terms of moving mass, much more so than the VENUS (link here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/moo...-pads-discussion.970569/page-27#post-18103837 ).

The COSMO's technical ability should be similar to those of the Susvara; those of the VENUS are significantly lower.

For headphone tonality, rather than using a reference target curve (such as the recognized Crinacle curve target), I prefer to use a reference headphone recognized as faithful and neutral, at least in the broad 80 Hz - 10 KHz frequency range, such as the Sennheiser HD-600 (2020 or 2021).
Below 80 Hz, the HD-600 lacks bass; above 10 KHz, FR measurements are technically unreliable and diverge widely from one measurement platform to another.

Spoiler

Sennheiser HD-600 (2020 - 2021) ; Tone grade: S- ; Technical grade: B+ (according to reviewer Crinacle)
(Note: “S” is the best grade, followed by A, B, C, D, E and F).

Sennheiser HD600 (2021) (turquoise colour baseline) = Reference headphones chosen for FR (= 0 dB relative) between 80 Hz and 10 KHz.

Why is respecting tone so important for headphones?

Well, respect for tonality in headphones (or Hi-Fi speakers) is a matter of moving towards or away from High Fidelity; the further you move away from it, the less accurate and faithful the headphones will sound in relation to the instrument or voice being recorded.

You can consider headphones to be reasonably faithful in terms of tonality, if their frequency response (between 80 Hz and 10 kHz) remains within +/- 3 dB of the Sennheiser HD 600 (2020 or 2021) taken as the reference headphones for respect of tonality.
Outside this +/- 3 dB range, the headphones will be noticeably colored and “typed” for sound, sometimes pleasantly or, on the contrary, unpleasantly to the ear.

One caveat, however: respecting the FR of headphones within a range of +/- 3 dB, compared with the Sennheiser HD-600 (2020 or 2021) headphones taken as a reference, is a necessary, but not always sufficient, condition for judging the neutrality and fidelity of a pair of headphones ; the ear is often much finer than these FR curves for judging the tonal errors of a headphone; for example (*), the case of COSMO equipped with the Dekoni's Elite Hybrid HE pads, which sounded less good at reproducing the cello due to a small level bump at 800 Hz and a frequency response that was too “mid-centric”, whereas comparatively speaking, the same COSMO headphones equipped with the PARA's hybrid pads sounded much better for listening to the cello, with a sound more complete and less “mid-centric”.
(*) : https://www.head-fi.org/threads/moo...-pads-discussion.970569/page-29#post-18142510

Below you'll find two spoiler showing the tonality (FR) of various headphones: starting with the Moondrop planar headphones and also many other well-known headphones compared for tonality against the Sennheiser HD-600 (2020 and 2021) taken as reference headphones; imho a necessary condition for headphones to sound good, faithful to the instruments and voices recorded, but not always sufficient...

Spoiler

Sennheiser HD600 (2021) (turquoise colour baseline) = Reference headphones chosen for FR (= 0 dB relative) between 80 Hz and 10 KHz.

Spoiler

Sennheiser HD600 (2021) (turquoise colour baseline) = Reference headphones chosen for FR (= 0 dB relative) between 80 Hz and 10 KHz.

 

[vicenzajay]

@eric65 What do you think about the EP100a hybrid pad with the Venus? It should fit perfectly given the outer diameter, right? Have you tried it? If I could order the default hybrid pads for Para (to put on the Venus), I'd do that in a heartbeat.

 

[eric65]

@eric65 What do you think about the EP100a hybrid pad with the Venus? It should fit perfectly given the outer diameter, right? Have you tried it? If I could order the default hybrid pads for Para (to put on the Venus), I'd do that in a heartbeat.

Hi.

No, I haven't tried it, but there's a good chance that the PARA's hybrid pads, and to a lesser extent the Moondrop EP-100A pads, will make the VENUS sound like a PARA headphone (with its hybrid pads by default), with, for many, too much treble perception.

What's more, my perception of the upper-midrange and treble with these hybrid pads won't necessarily be the same as yours.

Imho, the best advice I can give you is to buy the Moondrop EP-100A pads yourself and try them out; they're very inexpensive to buy ($29.99 USD); they should fit both the VENUS and the PARA (where they work, for the PARA, very well, better than the PARA's default hybrid pads), and the COSMO (where they don't work as well as the PARA's hybrid pads) ; make your own experience with them.
The Moondrop EP-100A pads should be a little less bright in the treble than the PARA's hybrid pads, whether on the VENUS, the PARA or the COSMO.
For the COSMO, I find the EP-100A pads lacking in treble compared with the PARA's hybrid pads, which I prefer on the COSMO.

Otherwise, I like a lot the VENUS stock pads for their bass dynamics and the slightly V-shaped sound they provide; admittedly a colorful sound, but pleasant for my ears.
The VENUS stock pads also lend themselves more easily than the PARA's hybrid pads (or the EP-100A pads) to being voluntarily unsealed on their front face (breaking the seal) to artificially increase the VENUS bass SPL level by +3 dB between 30 Hz and 80 Hz and thus accentuate the perceived dynamics in low, as well as the width of the soundstage; it's quite fun to do. I like it.

 

[vicenzajay]

Yeah - I wear glasses, so I've enjoyed the increased bass perception as well.

That said, the stock pads (on the Venus) become hot and uncomfortable after about 40 minutes or so of listening. This is a shame, as the Venus itself is one of my favorites.

If I could find circular velour, perhaps I could modify the stock pads and just stick with them...

 

[eric65]

Hello everyone.

Listening this afternoon (in France) to bass guitar and a set of cymbals with the VENUS, PARA and COSMO.

To appreciate the headphone timbres of several cymbals, finely played, I came across this video of Mike Oldfield's famous Tubular Bells reinterpreted (completed) by the very fine drums of Sina-drums.



The PARA, though equipped with its EP-100A upgrade pads (attenuating the treble a little compared with the original hybrid pads), gives the most dazzling listen to the cymbals shining brightly.

The VENUS (with its stock pads) gives the most dynamic (V-shaped) listening of Sina's drums, a little simplified in timbre and level of detail, but the most spectacular: it's as dynamic as you could wish for.

The COSMO with its stock pads (I briefly tried them again) gives dull cymbals, far too recessed; the sound is strange, deformed if you like: listening is the least natural.

The same COSMO re-equipped with PARA's hybrid pads gives the fullest, most natural, finest and most detailed sound for the reproduction of Sina's drums, especially for the cymbals, which are extremely fine, accurate and natural.
The sound is complete, tonally, and also because it's not simplified; it's richer than with the VENUS, but the latter stands out for its punchier, more in-your-face dynamics.

The three headphones are interesting to listen to in this video, each demonstrating its own character.

 

[eric65]

Hello everyone.

Still listening to Sina's drums, this time with the music "Light My Fire" (The Doors), with the VENUS and COSMO headphones (re-equipped for the latter with the PARA's hybrid pads).



Everything written above (in my previous post) about the very fine cymbals of Sina-drums applies here too ; but the COSMO takes the lead over the VENUS on this video for a number of reasons:

With the VENUS and its V-shaped sound signature, the snare drum takes a back seat to the bass and the bass-drum, for the lows, and the cymbals,for the highs. The sound is also simplified, a little "raw" (slight lack of finesse, in particular for the cymbals). (*)

With the COSMO re-equipped with the PARA's hybrid pads, the sound is more complete, fine, and better balanced in the low, medium and high registers, whether for bass and bass-drum (whose impact and depth are on a par with that of the VENUS), the snare drum (wich is here present as it should be, with convincing dynamics and speed), the reed organ (harmonium), the electric guitar, and finally the cymbals, always fine, accurate and natural as desired.

To resume, in this video, I clearly prefer the COSMO, which is much richer, complete, precise, fine and balanced than the VENUS for sound, while retaining a bass-drum impact real and a snare drum dynamic wich is convincing for timbre, precision and the speed.

In short, with this high tech COSMO planar headphone, transfigured with the PARA's hybrid pads, it's a pure joy to hear this video, in particular with a tube 2A3 amp enough powerful (2 x 3 Watt), as fine and racy as Sina's drumming ...


EDIT:
(*) Note : the lack of cymbals finesse is particularly glaring with the Sennheiser HD-400 Pro headphone (aka HD-560S), which sounds really “raw” and whose resolution, finesse and spatialization are well below those of the VENUS, and even more so, of the COSMO (re-equipped with the PARA's hybrid pads).

From left to right in this photo:
Moondrop PARA reequipped with the moondrop EP-100A upgrade pads and the moondrop upgrade UP balanced cable (cupper color).
Moondrop COSMO reequipped with the PARA's hybrid pads, with it stock balanced cable (black color).
Sennheiser HD-560S (on the Viva Egoista 2A3 (2 x 3 watt) tube amplifier).
Moondrop VENUS with it stock balanced cable (silver color).

 

[eric65]

Hi, all.

Who still listens to the legendary Bob Marley in 2024, more than 40 years after his death?
And with which headphones: Moondrop VENUS or the brand-new COSMO?

Well, I (you too ?) , with a clear preference for the Moondrop COSMO headphone re-equipped with the PARA's hybrid pads on this live recording of Bob Marley made in Santa Barbara, California in 1979, 2 years before the reggae legend's death .



On this Californian live recording, supposedly remastered, the highs are quite piercing with the VENUS and the bass sounds a little cavernous; once again, it's “raw”.
With the COSMO re-equipped with the PARA's hybrid pads , listening is more pleasant, more velvety, more “cool” in the sense of relaxed; the sound is also more detailed, balanced for the tonality of instruments and voices and also more involving than with the VENUS, more “raw”; which goes very well with the musical genre.
Bob's voice is also more natural, softer, more subtle, nuanced and involving (communicative) with the COSMO; the voices of female singers in chorus are also softer and less sibilant in the upper register. The bass sounds less cavernous; high notes are finer, more detailed, nuanced, softer, less piercing and sibilant than with the VENUS.

A live concert that takes me back more than 40 years, to the delight of the listener.

 

[vicenzajay]

I love reading your impressions with the great music selected, Eric. That said, the tone here seems to be turning into a "let's bash the Venus" thread. This can become a bit repetitive as a form factor. As an example, the thread started (way back when) with the Para - which was great. Then it morphed into several pages of how much better the Venus was compared to the Para. Now it's page after page of how much better the Cosmo is than the Venus.

That's all good, but I'm struggling to see where there is much 'new' information being offered here. The Cosmo, at nearly double the price of the Venus (which can be had for around $480-$500 open box if you shop around, mine was new for $460), *should* be better than the Venus - and the descriptions of their sound aren't changing much in these evaluations over the last 10-20 posts. In fact, if you factor in the need for additional pads to make the Cosmo serviceable, the argument here seems less than clear.

For my part, I'm going to report back once I get the EP100A pads in and installed on the Venus. I really liked what the Dekoni pads did to the Venus' profile, but I didn't like the fit at all (the Venus is the only pair of these three that doesn't use a metal ring for pad installation). If the EP100A pads bring the same sophistication to the Venus' sound profile, then I would argue that it again becomes the value champion in this debate when considering the three Moondrop offerings. If the 'rawness' of its sound can be mitigated - and it costs 1/2 of what the Cosmo costs - then I think the comparison might become a bit different.

This is especially true as we see prices fall on the non-Moondrop alternatives in the same ballpark. The Arya Organic, as one example, can be had almost any day now for $850-$950 in as-new or open box condition. I wonder what a head-to-head showdown between the Cosmo and Arya Organic would look like? My premonition is that the former wouldn't fare so well.

Just my .-2

 

[eric65]

I love reading your impressions with the great music selected, Eric. That said, the tone here seems to be turning into a "let's bash the Venus" thread. This can become a bit repetitive as a form factor. As an example, the thread started (way back when) with the Para - which was great. Then it morphed into several pages of how much better the Venus was compared to the Para. Now it's page after page of how much better the Cosmo is than the Venus.

.......

This is especially true as we see prices fall on the non-Moondrop alternatives in the same ballpark. The Arya Organic, as one example, can be had almost any day now for $850-$950 in as-new or open box condition. I wonder what a head-to-head showdown between the Cosmo and Arya Organic would look like? My premonition is that the former wouldn't fare so well.

Just my .-2

Peace in the music, as my childhood idol Bob Marley would say. Nothing to be upset about.

From my point of view, it's a good thing that the COSMO, re-equipped with the right pads (unlike the stock pads, alas), is technically and tonally better than its two predecessors, the VENUS and the PARA, especially for its price, which is quite substantial.
The opposite would have frankly upset me.

On the other hand, I can be upset by the fact that, for example, the VENUS sounds so much better than my Kennerton Thror, which costs 4 times as much as the VENUS (and 3 times as much as the COSMO).
But I accept this youthful error.

As for the comparison of the COSMO reequipped with the right pads versus the Hifiman Arya Organic, I'll have to wait and see (or rather to listen), as the sound signature of the Hifiman Arya Organic seem quite typed, quite V-shaped, much more so than the VENUS ; not to mention the COSMO reequipped with the PARA's hybrid pads, wich is the most faithful in terms of tone compared with the Sennheiser HD-600 headphones taken as a reference for tone (between 80 Hz and 10 KHz).

Between a Hifiman Arya Organic and a VENUS, in view of the FRs below, I choose the VENUS. (nb: see spoiler below).

Spoiler

Otherwise, I'm lucky enough to have a VENUS, a PARA and a COSMO equipped with the right pads; I keep all three headphones, each with its own character (which I like for all three).

 

[eric65]

That's all good, but I'm struggling to see where there is much 'new' information being offered here.

Hi.

What if the new information came from the new Hifiman Susvara UNVEILED headphones, which have removed their external protective grille for an even more open sound?
The loss of the external grille of the new Hifiman Susvara has not prevented the price of this new Susvara headphones from rising from 6,000 US dollars to 8,000 US dollars !
(Nb: the COSMO, which is at least as technically advanced as the old Susvara, costs only 900 US dollars).

No, the real novelty of the Susvara “Unveiled” is the new metal circuit printed on the “nanometric” diaphragm which is made of silver (instead of gold, much heavier and less conductive than silver) to improve its sensitivity, as clearly indicated here:
Quote: " New to the SUSVARA UNVEILED is a metallic silver conductor layer, as silver boasts the highest conductivity of all metals. Sensitivity is maximized, subtle details are revealed, and a sense of “air” that is so important for high-end audio performance is greatly improved. "
Source: https://www.theabsolutesound.com/ar...-susvara-unveiled-open-back-planar-headphone/ )

The question now is whether the thickness of the metallic silver traces on the diaphragm of the new Hifiman Susvara is greater or less than that of the pure silver traces on the diaphragm of the COSMO (which I have calculated to be just 0.1 um (100 nm)).
Source: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/moo...-pads-discussion.970569/page-27#post-18103837

The Moondrop COSMO planar headphones clearly beats the new Susvara in terms of technical innovation, since the COSMO already uses ultra-thin (100 nm) pure silver traces for it "nano scale diaphragm", even before the new Susvara...