[Wes S]

thanks man! your post got me worried so it made me take a splurg on a Topping D70.. for a Dac upgrade. Now I remember why I stopped coming to Head-Fi unless im dead set on upgrading lol. I also ended up going with a pair of the 1961 Amperex PQ 6922/E88CC USA Gold Pin with matching serials for 225$ from a ebay seller you linked to in another thread and found them mentioned on joes tubes recommendations as it sounds like they're the perfect match for me.
I plan on doing some more tube rolling and will probably be picking up a pair of the ones you recommended as well just to see what they're all about
Welp, thats about 1300$ in the hole but I'm sure the entire upgrade will be worth it. They should all be coming around the same time so hooking up a whole new system to the HD800/S is going to be pretty damn exciting.

Sounds like some fun times ahead, for sure!

 

[pichu]

thanks man! your post got me worried so it made me take a splurg on a Topping D70.. for a Dac upgrade. Now I remember why I stopped coming to Head-Fi unless im dead set on upgrading lol. I also ended up going with a pair of the 1961 Amperex PQ 6922/E88CC White labled USA Gold Pin with matching serials for 225$ from a ebay seller you linked to in another thread and found them mentioned on joes tubes recommendations as it sounds like they're the perfect match for me.
I plan on doing some more tube rolling and will probably be picking up a pair of the ones you recommended as well just to see what they're all about
Welp, thats about 1300$ in the hole but I'm sure the entire upgrade will be worth it. They should all be coming around the same time so hooking up a whole new system to the HD800/S is going to be pretty damn exciting.

Oh, are there any particular XLR cables that I need? This is my first time diving into using balanced cables. I was just going to grab some basic ones from monoprice.

Basic ones will work. I do suggest Blue Jeans Cables though. They are cheap in price but high in quality and customer service. I use them for my XLRs and ethernet cables, etc.

 

[Mkoll]

Ghent cables are good and fairly priced as well though they may take longer to arrive.

 

[xiorath]

sick! thank you guys for all the help! I'll post my impressions once everything is setup and I've done a full off day of listening to some music/ gaming then compare the two setups and also the differences i get with the JJ/Amp white label tubes.

 

[gtb75]

FYI for anyone who doesn't have one yet, Amazon is currently selling the LP for $615.99 and has six of them used for under $500! I have had mine since late 2018 and still love it... Great amp - particularly at these prices.

 

[KG Jag]

^^^ I use Monoprice XLR balanced cables and am very happy with them. Like many of Monoprice cables, they are hard to beat at their price points or anything near them.

 

[KG Jag]

Yesterday I got my replacement "open box" LP from Monoprice. Major improvement from the first one, which was both dangerous and defective for multiple reasons. Ran 5 SACD's and 1 CD between both the balanced and RCA inputs into a balanced HD 800. Sounds great (although not yet burned in by a long shot), especially after it had been on for about 45 minutes to an hour.

 

[Ham Sandwich]

Is it true that it is recommended to buy better quality tubes than those that come standard on the LP? Could someone confirm that information to me or does the LP sound great with their own tubes?

The LP sounds fine with the stock tubes.

The Cavalli blended hybrids (Liquid Fire, Liquid Crimson, Liquid Platinum) are mostly solid state in their sound. The tube side contributes to maybe 25% or less of the sound. When rolling tubes you're playing with the 25% and less part of the sound. Tube rolling doesn't make that much of a difference with the blended hybrid design as they would in a more conventional tube amp. Tube rolling with the blended hybrids isn't going to radically change the amp. It's about more subtle changes. Keep that in mind when considering whether it is worth it to try rolling in some expensive tubes.

The LP sounds fine with the stock tubes. For new production tubes the Gold Lion tubes are the best sounding of the new production tubes to me. From there it is into the NOS tubes. The LP tube rolling thread is a bit nuts. Crazy. Don't feel that you need to acquire a big tube stash to try rolling in different tubes.

The Liquid Platinum is an affordable hybrid amp. You don't need to turn it into an expensive amp by playing with tubes that are $100+ each. You don't need to turn the LP into a $1400 amp by spending hundreds of dollars on tubes. The stock tubes work fine. Consider that spending lots of money on tubes maybe could be better spent on a better DAC instead. If you're trying to get a bigger soundstage out of the LP consider a DAC that has a bigger and deeper soundstage instead.

I have a Liquid Fire and a Liquid Platinum. I use Gold Lion new production tubes in both of them. They're good enough for me. The Liquid Fire is the amp I use the most. One reason I have Gold Lion tubes in it is because I run the amp enough that the tubes tend to last about two years before the sound quality lessens and I notice that "hey, it's probably time for new tubes". I put in new tubes and the sound quality is back. The Liquid Fire takes four tubes. With the Gold Lions that's less than $200 worth of tubes. With some of the NOS that would be $600+ worth of tubes. It is much easier on my nervosa to replace $200 worth of tubes than $600 every two years. With $600 tubes I'd be saying maybe the tubes aren't worn out yet and can go a bit more even if I know the tubes are wearing out and the sound quality is decreasing. While with the Gold Lions I just change the tubes without needing to consider the cost.

I haven't run the Liquid Platinum enough to know how long tubes are going to last in it. I expect about the same number of hours as the Liquid Fire.

 

[mixman]

The LP sounds fine with the stock tubes.

The Cavalli blended hybrids (Liquid Fire, Liquid Crimson, Liquid Platinum) are mostly solid state in their sound. The tube side contributes to maybe 25% or less of the sound. When rolling tubes you're playing with the 25% and less part of the sound. Tube rolling doesn't make that much of a difference with the blended hybrid design as they would in a more conventional tube amp. Tube rolling with the blended hybrids isn't going to radically change the amp. It's about more subtle changes. Keep that in mind when considering whether it is worth it to try rolling in some expensive tubes.

The LP sounds fine with the stock tubes. For new production tubes the Gold Lion tubes are the best sounding of the new production tubes to me. From there it is into the NOS tubes. The LP tube rolling thread is a bit nuts. Crazy. Don't feel that you need to acquire a big tube stash to try rolling in different tubes.

The Liquid Platinum is an affordable hybrid amp. You don't need to turn it into an expensive amp by playing with tubes that are $100+ each. You don't need to turn the LP into a $1400 amp by spending hundreds of dollars on tubes. The stock tubes work fine. Consider that spending lots of money on tubes maybe could be better spent on a better DAC instead. If you're trying to get a bigger soundstage out of the LP consider a DAC that has a bigger and deeper soundstage instead.

I have a Liquid Fire and a Liquid Platinum. I use Gold Lion new production tubes in both of them. They're good enough for me. The Liquid Fire is the amp I use the most. One reason I have Gold Lion tubes in it is because I run the amp enough that the tubes tend to last about two years before the sound quality lessens and I notice that "hey, it's probably time for new tubes". I put in new tubes and the sound quality is back. The Liquid Fire takes four tubes. With the Gold Lions that's less than $200 worth of tubes. With some of the NOS that would be $600+ worth of tubes. It is much easier on my nervosa to replace $200 worth of tubes than $600 every two years. With $600 tubes I'd be saying maybe the tubes aren't worn out yet and can go a bit more even if I know the tubes are wearing out and the sound quality is decreasing. While with the Gold Lions I just change the tubes without needing to consider the cost.

I haven't run the Liquid Platinum enough to know how long tubes are going to last in it. I expect about the same number of hours as the Liquid Fire.

Agreed. I found when had the LP and rolled tubes the sound did not dramatically change. Basically love it or hate it, the sound is what it is, tube rolling will not change the sound enough to change your mind either way.

 

[Wes S]

The LP sounds fine with the stock tubes.

The Cavalli blended hybrids (Liquid Fire, Liquid Crimson, Liquid Platinum) are mostly solid state in their sound. The tube side contributes to maybe 25% or less of the sound. When rolling tubes you're playing with the 25% and less part of the sound. Tube rolling doesn't make that much of a difference with the blended hybrid design as they would in a more conventional tube amp. Tube rolling with the blended hybrids isn't going to radically change the amp. It's about more subtle changes. Keep that in mind when considering whether it is worth it to try rolling in some expensive tubes.

The LP sounds fine with the stock tubes. For new production tubes the Gold Lion tubes are the best sounding of the new production tubes to me. From there it is into the NOS tubes. The LP tube rolling thread is a bit nuts. Crazy. Don't feel that you need to acquire a big tube stash to try rolling in different tubes.

The Liquid Platinum is an affordable hybrid amp. You don't need to turn it into an expensive amp by playing with tubes that are $100+ each. You don't need to turn the LP into a $1400 amp by spending hundreds of dollars on tubes. The stock tubes work fine. Consider that spending lots of money on tubes maybe could be better spent on a better DAC instead. If you're trying to get a bigger soundstage out of the LP consider a DAC that has a bigger and deeper soundstage instead.

I have a Liquid Fire and a Liquid Platinum. I use Gold Lion new production tubes in both of them. They're good enough for me. The Liquid Fire is the amp I use the most. One reason I have Gold Lion tubes in it is because I run the amp enough that the tubes tend to last about two years before the sound quality lessens and I notice that "hey, it's probably time for new tubes". I put in new tubes and the sound quality is back. The Liquid Fire takes four tubes. With the Gold Lions that's less than $200 worth of tubes. With some of the NOS that would be $600+ worth of tubes. It is much easier on my nervosa to replace $200 worth of tubes than $600 every two years. With $600 tubes I'd be saying maybe the tubes aren't worn out yet and can go a bit more even if I know the tubes are wearing out and the sound quality is decreasing. While with the Gold Lions I just change the tubes without needing to consider the cost.

I haven't run the Liquid Platinum enough to know how long tubes are going to last in it. I expect about the same number of hours as the Liquid Fire.

Curious what tubes have you tried, other than stock and Gold Lions?
I have rolled some tubes that made quite a change to the sound, and they did not cost a fortune either. For example, the Holland made Bugle Boy ECC88 D Getter from 58'. Another great tube, that sounds quite different from stock is the Brimar CV 2492. Both tubes cost around $80 for the pair, and changed the sound enough to justify the expense. I can't really put a percentage on how much the sound changed, but it did and it was fun. Some tubes I have tried are just unlistenable as in changes of sound were drastic enough to cause fatigue. I totally get the point of not going crazy with $1000 dollar tubes, but tube rolling with this Hybrid, is just as fun as with my OTL. Roll on fellow LP owners, and tweak the sound to your liking.

Just to add, I agree the DAC used with LP has a more significant effect to the sound, and was my first upgrade, when I got my LP.

 

[Wes S]

Is it true that it is recommended to buy better quality tubes than those that come standard on the LP? Could someone confirm that information to me or does the LP sound great with their own tubes?

Sure it sounds fine with stock tubes, but it sounds amazing and a heck of a lot better, with some NOS tubes.

 

[LCMusicLover]

...Tube rolling with the blended hybrids isn't going to radically change the amp. It's about subtle changes...

Absolutely true.

...Don't feel that you need to acquire a big tube stash to try rolling in different tubes...You don't need to turn it into an expensive amp by playing with tubes that are $100+ each. You don't need to turn the LP into a $1400 amp by spending hundreds of dollars on tubes.

Great! NOW you tell me.

...Consider that spending lots of money on tubes maybe could be better spent on a better DAC instead..

Yep. Or better cans, or maybe better power, or better source files. Or a cable upgrade.

For me, there are a lot of moving parts in my chain — different cans, DACs, cables, pads. Changing cans (obviously) has by far the biggest impact. But after that...swapping between my DACs and changing cables are in the same ball park as far as the magnitude of the impact on the sound. Note that I’m talking about comparing good DACs, and good upgrade cables. So when I swap Silver Dragon and Lazuli Reference cables or Denafrips Pontus and Gumby, the changes are similar in degree. And such changes are intended to ‘shape’ the sound to improve pairings with different cans or for different musical genres...or just for the heck of it

All that is a preamble to say that tube rolling with the LP is about shaping the sound signature, not changing it significantly.

However, to my ears, LP/stock tubes wasn’t wonderful. And since, when I acquired it, I was hoping for a magical pairing w/ Utopia, that disappointed me. Admittedly, I went a bit nuts rolling tubes for a while: Gold Lions, Amperex PQ, Siemens E88CC & E188CC & CCa, Brimar CV-2492 (two pair). I did spend more on tubes than on the amp — well, actually about the same. The Gold Lions and Siemens were all about the Utopia pairing. Brimar were about pairing with Empyrean when I owned them. They NEEDED a tube upgrade — just too warm with stock tubes or the various Siemens tubes. Ether 2 are the only other cans which needed a tube upgrade. They seemed flat and lifeless from LP/stock tubes.

Actually that’s a really good illustration of what can be done. Utopia were just OK from LP/stock, but not noticeably better than from Liquid Carbon X. But the Utopia/LP/Semens NOS pairing does provide the magic I’d hoped for. Empyrean were better from LP/Brimar, but not improved enough for me to like/keep them. Ether 2 picked up enough energy and headstage depth with upgraded tubes that I preferred that pairing to E2/Bryston BHA-1, which definitely wasn’t true for E2/LP/stock.

But overall, I agree that the amp isn’t going to change character with different tubes. If you don’t like it (at least a little) with stock tubes, no tube swap is gonna ‘fix’ it for you.

 

[Wes S]

Some tubes make a bigger difference than others.

Examples of NOS tubes that have different sound signatures-

1. Mullard CV2492 - pretty much mids only and super warm and rolled off on both ends.
2. Brimar CV 2492- Forward Vocals and extended top end without ever getting harsh, more neutral sounding than Mullard with a hint of warmth and extending deeper in bass as well.
3. Siemens 6DJ8 - So transparent, forward, dynamic and clear it caused me fatigue on long sessions, however it is well balanced and I could see many loving it.
4. Amperex Bugle Boy D getter made in Holland 6DJ8 - Huge bass and forward beautiful mids and lifelike vocals, with lovely extended highs. 3 D like and huge sound stage. This is my current favorite tube, and if you don't think the LP has bass slam and punch, then you need to try this tube.

Just to add, these tubes to me are like tone controls, and the overall sound of the amp stays the same, but becomes more enjoyable and listenable. So why not try a few tubes, that have completely different sound signatures and see which one you like. Just because it is an affordable hybrid, don't let that deter you from tube rolling and tweaking the sound. Also, all tubes above can be found in pairs listed under or around $80 - $100.

After all, aren't subtle changes and tweaks, what this hobby is all about?

 

[Wes S]

My favorite tube currently warming up in LP.

Made in Holland - Amperex Bugle Boy ECC88/6DJ8 - D Getters - 1958

Happy Sunday and Listening!

 

[Ham Sandwich]

What prompted my post about tube rolling is seeing some posts in this thread with people expressing some nervosa about buying thing Liquid Platinum thinking they’d need to dive into the crazy rabbit hole of tube rolling if they got the amp. Tube rolling is not necessary. The tube rolling threads on head-fi exaggerate the benefits and utility of tube rolling various amp. And the Liquid Platinum is one of them.

The truth is that the Liquid Platinum is a Cavalli blended hybrid design where most of the sound style is already baked in the solid state side of the amp and the circuit design. The tubes contribute to only about 25% or less of the overall sound (I’d say less). It is not an amp designed to respond to tube rolling. You can change tubes as a sort of tone control with the amp. But you aren’t going to get radical changes. Just what I’d consider minor. Tubes only affect 25% or less of the overall sound.

I don’t want people to get the idea that they need to do tube rolling with the Liquid Platinum or any of the other Cavalli blended hybrid amps. Because you don’t.

The tube rolling threads on head-fi tend to give a wrong impression about how much tubes change the sound of particular amps. The tube rolling guys have their fun. I understand it. But it does scare away some people from considering amps that have active tube rolling threads.

I am familiar with tube rolling and how different tubes affect the sound. I also own a Cavalli Liquid Glass. The Liquid Glass is a hybrid amp where the tubes really are a major part of the circuit. The design of the Liquid Glass is to transmit the sound of the tubes to the headphones with as little change as possible. And it does. Tube changes with the Liquid Glass make big changes to the sound. Roll two pairs of tubes in the Liquid Platinum and little change. Roll those same pairs of tubes in the Liquid Glass and big change. With the Liquid Platinum you’re getting less than 25% of the change as with the Liquid Glass. Plus with reasonable tubes the Liquid Glass just sounds better than the Liquid Platinum ever can.

Another inconvenient truth is that the Liquid Fire and Liquid Crimson will sound better using the Gold Lion tubes than the Liquid Platinum will sound with any exotic tube you can find. For optimal spending don’t spend more on a Liquid Platinum plus tube stash than a used Liquid Fire and a quad of Gold Lion new production tubes.

My experience with the Liquid Fire and Liquid Glass pretty much quells my desire to roll tubes in the Liquid Platinum. Because rolling tubes in the Liquid Platinum gets the least benefit and lower ultimate fidelity.

The Liquid Platinum is a fantastic amp a great bargain and I quite like it. But things do need to be kept in perspective.