money towards good CD player or DAC?

[cspirou]

The Newer ($399) Marantz CD5005 comes with the CS4398 DAC chip, same DAC chip found in a $75 sound card.
I'm sure the Marantz sounds great and I'm sure there is more good hardware on the insides, beside the DAC chip, but still it uses the same DAC chip as a $75 ($60 on sale) sound card.
I'm hopeful the OP just burns all his Audio CDs to FLAC.

I have many reasons for not wanting to convert all my CDs to FLAC. The main reason is that I would need a computer with my hifi system to play my music. I keep my computer in a separate space from my music system and don't plan on buying a dedicated computer to play my music. But even if I did get a dedicated computer it is definitely not a plug and play situation. I would have to boot up the computer, turn on a screen, open a media player and search for my songs. This is quite a bit more equipment and complications than turning on a CD player and pressing play.

Also converting my stock to FLAC takes up a significant amount of time and would be redundant for me since I don't plan to get rid of my CDs.

And finally I would also like my parents to use this system. They have CDs and they know CDs. They don't know FLAC,ALAC,WAV,MP3,AAC,etc and everything needed to play those formats.

All this is also off topic since my question is focusing on quality of CD playback on not to debate why I should just convert it all to music files.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

I have many reasons for not wanting to convert all my CDs to FLAC. The main reason is that I would need a computer with my hifi system to play my music. I keep my computer in a separate space from my music system and don't plan on buying a dedicated computer to play my music. But even if I did get a dedicated computer it is definitely not a plug and play situation. I would have to boot up the computer, turn on a screen, open a media player and search for my songs. This is quite a bit more equipment and complications than turning on a CD player and pressing play.

Also converting my stock to FLAC takes up a significant amount of time and would be redundant for me since I don't plan to get rid of my CDs.

And finally I would also like my parents to use this system. They have CDs and they know CDs. They don't know FLAC,ALAC,WAV,MP3,AAC,etc and everything needed to play those formats.

All this is also off topic since my question is focusing on quality of CD playback on not to debate why I should just convert it all to music files.

 

No need to use a slow, general purpose computer when there are computers designed specifcally for audio playback. Basically CDPs, but with HDDs instead of transports (some have both). The complications with a CDP, like I said, will come when your transport gives up the ghost; by contrast, anyone with a screw driver who can figure out where to use them can replace a harddrive, which can be found in any nearby computer store, unlike say a Philips CDM12 transport.

 

http://www.olive.us/products/music_systems/olive4hd/overview.html

 

http://us.marantz.com/us/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=HiFiComponents&ProductId=NA7004

 

http://en.auneaudio.com/html/en_products/NewDesign/s-series/126_12.html

 

http://www.musicalfidelity.com/m1clic/

 

These won't need a computer for the files aside from archiving them. You can put all the music files in an NAS drive connected to your router at home, and as long as these devices have (W)LAN, then they can access them. Some of them have USB ports so you can just hook up a portable HDD for local storage (as with the Aune S1, which has several USB ports for 3.5in self-powered, 2.5in portable/low power, and solid state thumb drives). For those with speaker systems, some like the 4HD were designed to be placed near the listening chair and then connected to a DAC through its digital output, with a shape conducive to being like a tablet on a table; the 4HD can, along with the others, also be controlled with an app that you can set-up on everybody's smartphone to make them easier to use. For speaker users that means a convenient remote; for the other people in the house, that means a direct, less fussy interface to the audio system.

 

Basically, at least if you stick to optical drives, be aware as early as now that there are already alternatives, and keep following developments there.

 

----

 

I'm still saving up for one, but I'm using a very fast and responsive kind of general purpose computer on my reference system myself: a smartphone (also a tablet). I come home, remove the soft+hard 2-layer case, slide my phone into the dock, switch on the power strip and the amplifier, launch MediaMonkey, and I'm listening. No boot-up times, no complex issues, if anyone wanted to use it they should be able to understand it since everyone I know nowadays has a smartphone (even my grandmother has an iPad). As long as the dock is connected nobody else needs to music player no one needs to understand that I use a USB OTG cable or a Camera Connection Kit USB adapter to make USB audio happen.

 

 

 

[cel4145]

I am not asking for specific recommendations and $500 is not my budget, only a point of reference. I am basically asking if its better to pour my money into a CD player or into a DAC with a minimal CD player.

Do you only want to listen to one CD at a time and have to switch it out? Or would you rather have the same audio quality as a CD player, only with your songs on a computer where you can create playlists?

Update: I see you already answered that. However, Protege Maniac is correct. There are other options for you that could involve using digital files instead of CDs.

 

[cspirou]

If anyone is truly interested in helping me than do not bring up going without the CD player. Its answering a question I never asked. Its like someone asking for what cartridge to get for their vinyl system and then answering "why don't you just go digital? Its sooooo much better!"

Yes I realize DACs can be used with computers. Bonus. DACs also happen to work with CD players too which is what I am investigating.

 

[PurpleAngel]

I have many reasons for not wanting to convert all my CDs to FLAC. The main reason is that I would need a computer with my hifi system to play my music. I keep my computer in a separate space from my music system and don't plan on buying a dedicated computer to play my music. But even if I did get a dedicated computer it is definitely not a plug and play situation. I would have to boot up the computer, turn on a screen, open a media player and search for my songs. This is quite a bit more equipment and complications than turning on a CD player and pressing play.
Also converting my stock to FLAC takes up a significant amount of time and would be redundant for me since I don't plan to get rid of my CDs.
And finally I would also like my parents to use this system. They have CDs and they know CDs. They don't know FLAC,ALAC,WAV,MP3,AAC,etc and everything needed to play those formats.
All this is also off topic since my question is focusing on quality of CD playback on not to debate why I should just convert it all to music files.

 
I think it's safe to say most Head-Fiers are geared to ripping their Audio-CDs to a FLAC file (or ALAC or at least an mp3 file)
So a lot of Head-fiers try to steer others in that direction, so do not take it personal, we just do it out of habit.
You can get a DAP (Digital Audio Player) for $100, that will play FLAC files, so most Head-Fiers would burn and play their FLACs on a computer or store and play them on something like a DAP.
 
It looks like your trying to setup something for your parents to easily use.
So an all in one CD player might be the better choice for you.
 
Assuming this setup is for headphones and not speakers?
Another option is to get an Audio-GD NFB-15, external DAC/amp, $270 + shipping($45).
Comes with USB, optical & coaxial inputs (so it would give you a lot of options to use as a (low cost) source CD player).
Has Dual WM8741 DAC chips
A headphone amplifier with plenty of power.
Even comes with a separate line-output, if you decide you also want to use speakers.
http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB1532/NFB15.32EN.htm
 
eBay is loaded with low costing CD players ($100 give or take), nice part is if the CD player breaks, just throw it away and buy another.

 

[cel4145]

If anyone is truly interested in helping me than do not bring up going without the CD player. Its answering a question I never asked. Its like someone asking for what cartridge to get for their vinyl system and then answering "why don't you just go digital? Its sooooo much better!"

Not. It's no the same as that.

And don't get huffy about free advice that you aren't paying for. Some of us have helped 1000s of people. Even if that advice is not what you wanted, sometimes people that ask about CD players have not considered all the other options.

Personally, I'd stick with the cheap CD player and a separate DAC. If the CD player fails (it is mechanical), easy to replace.

 

[KG Jag]

Never yet have I had trouble with an Oppo or an Onkyo disc player.  I have multiple models and decks of each.  Still nothing lasts forever.  That includes music formats.  Although the LP seems to be doing very well, despite premature claims of its death.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

If anyone is truly interested in helping me than do not bring up going without the CD player. Its answering a question I never asked. Its like someone asking for what cartridge to get for their vinyl system and then answering "why don't you just go digital? Its sooooo much better!"

Yes I realize DACs can be used with computers. Bonus. DACs also happen to work with CD players too which is what I am investigating.

 
Because your other option is a DAC+cheap optical disc transport, so we're thinking you might want to look at a DAC with a server or a server with a decent DAC. since we're presenting you with options while I'm discussing the inevitable pitfalls of your options. As we say over here, "you have much more rice to eat." I'm already on my way back, you're still on your way. So I caution you on the path you want to take because I've already been to the point of pulling my hair out thanks to issues with optical disc transports.
 

 

[cspirou]

I think it's safe to say most Head-Fiers are geared to ripping their Audio-CDs to a FLAC file (or ALAC or at least an mp3 file)
So a lot of Head-fiers try to steer others in that direction, so do not take it personal, we just do it out of habit.

Which I totally understand and I am just trying to steer the conversation back to what I was asking. Nothing personal and I didn't directly attack anyone. Although I am thinking that this would have been better posted in the 'Sound Science' rather then the 'Help' forum.

Basically expensive CD players do exists and I am trying to figure out what value they present. Is it just bling factor? Does it give better performance than an expensive DAC with a cheaper CD player? Why?

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Basically expensive CD players do exists and I am trying to figure out what value they present. Is it just bling factor? Does it give better performance than an expensive DAC with a cheaper CD player? Why?

 

No, and that's why people were trying to save you from having to deal with transports in the first place. You're paying for an expensive transport that isn't guaranteed to last any longer than a Sony video disc player from Costco.

 

Or at least, not at $500 - if you get around to spending say $2,000 and up you can have a heavy transport that resists vibrations, not to mention that if you were the type to spend $6,000 on a Wadia CDP, not only is there likely distro support for it for years on end, but you probably won't see much of an expense in shipping it every few years to have the transport serviced. 

 

Then again, Wadia no longer has any optical disc players in its product line up, despite the fact that that's what they started with. This is the last one.

 

 

Of course, you can debate jitter and vibrations to no end, but you can always avoid that by...well, I wouldn't want to annoy you, but you can look up the previous posts when you're more open to alternatives with less expensive reliability issues.

 

[KG Jag]

 

I think it's safe to say most Head-Fiers are geared to ripping their Audio-CDs to a FLAC file (or ALAC or at least an mp3 file)
So a lot of Head-fiers try to steer others in that direction, so do not take it personal, we just do it out of habit.

Which I totally understand and I am just trying to steer the conversation back to what I was asking. Nothing personal and I didn't directly attack anyone. Although I am thinking that this would have been better posted in the 'Sound Science' rather then the 'Help' forum.

Basically expensive CD players do exists and I am trying to figure out what value they present. Is it just bling factor? Does it give better performance than an expensive DAC with a cheaper CD player? Why?

 
If you so desire, you can spend $4,500 and more on a CD (only) player.  Just like headphones and other audio electronics, there are entire ranges of prices and quality--which do not always correlate with one another.  There are different quality of transport mechanisms, DAC's (including how many), other internal electronics of all kinds, inputs, outputs, features and more.  Like with other audio electronics, you have to make your own call where increased performance no longer exceeds increased price.  At some point the CD format imposes its own limits on how good it can get, even if you are using the best recorded and mastered CD music.  You equipment stream running to and from your CD deck often/usually presents the same type of limitations.  You're limited by the weakest link in this chain, as well as how well all the pieces play together.
 
If I'm buying a deck to play CD's (and not SACD's, HDCD's, DVD-A, Blu-Ray, etc.), I'd take a hard look at the Marantz CD5004.  It is currently being closed out for $279 by Music Direct.  You can get the best shipped price directly from their web site.  They also sell it for + $10 total cost shipped through Amazon.  It is a Stereophile magazine recommended component.  See:
 
http://www.stereophile.com/content/marantz-cd5004-cd-player

 

[PurpleAngel]

Which I totally understand and I am just trying to steer the conversation back to what I was asking. Nothing personal and I didn't directly attack anyone. Although I am thinking that this would have been better posted in the 'Sound Science' rather then the 'Help' forum.
Basically expensive CD players do exists and I am trying to figure out what value they present. Is it just bling factor? Does it give better performance than an expensive DAC with a cheaper CD player? Why?

 
I do not believe for a given budget, you would get better sound quality from an all in one unit, over separate CD player and external DAC/amp.
There are just some really nice DAC/amps, which I'm guessing get updated, more often then the all in one units.

 

[kid vic]

If your parents wouldn't be able to handle a computer your probably better of using a dedicated high-end CD player seeing as there is far less complication with a single unit as opposed to two. The only advantage I could see to using a cheap transport+high-end DAC would be if you had a PC as an additional source and wanted to get the best sound from both but since your not inclined to go that route you would be better served with a single unit.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  If your parents wouldn't be able to handle a computer your probably better of using a dedicated high-end CD player seeing as there is far less complication with a single unit as opposed to two. The only advantage I could see to using a cheap transport+high-end DAC would be if you had a PC as an additional source and wanted to get the best sound from both but since your not inclined to go that route you would be better served with a single unit.

 
Yeah but then when the transport develops a few issues down the road the whole thing is rendered useless. At the very least, he'll have to spend around $800 (I think) on a CDP with SPDIF inputs, like the Cambridge 750C. Or, well, a good DAC and a cheap optical disc player as transport, plus some other device like a computer.

 

[cel4145]

Yeah but then when the transport develops a few issues down the road the whole thing is rendered useless. At the very least, he'll have to spend around $800 (I think) on a CDP with SPDIF inputs, like the Cambridge 750C. Or, well, a good DAC and a cheap optical disc player as transport, plus some other device like a computer.

+1

The motor that controls the tray in a somewhat expensive Marantz DVD player my brother and I bought our mom five years ago just died. It's junk now.