[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Stuart /img/forum/go_quote.gif WHOOPS, renag, renag - I got it wrong and no I had'nt been imbibing or doing anything else. The sig/wire is solid core copper, probably 0.7mm/21AWG or thereabouts. Also there is no sheilding on the incoming sig/wire. I would'nt have known if I had'nt cut away the heatshrink on one end.This for me is good news as I don't like sheilding per se on signal wire anyway. I have no idea how good this copper wire is or is'nt. I shall be replacing this and the wire from the pot to PCB with mil. spec. s/plated solid core copper - this is a personal choice and others may well differ. This also means that you can replicate the wire configuration of your favourite I/C inside the amp, the outer red sheath is worth keeping and may have been used to sheild the sig/wires from vibration within the amp as well as protecting them from heat. I don't know if Tourmaline has replaced any of this sig/wire or not. I suggest if you are going to change this, do so before changing caps - there is no need to lift out the PCB to effect this. So for those who are thinking of modding the Bada do think carefully about all the sig/wire, changing this wire is no big deal. I don't like the RCA sockets and using the plug body to solder the return wires to is not a good idea, much better is a dedicated earth tag, which the s/plated plugs I am replacing them with has. Tourmaline - if this shop you used for the mods will not tell you the resistor values just use an online resistor chart to determine these and get back to us. Personally if I paid serious money for these mods, I would insist on them telling me the values ( it's called making them an offer they can't refuse). The resistor replacing the set of 4 next to the mosfets should be easy to read, it's almost certainly available from RS. I'm particularly interested in resistor values if they have been changed around the valves. I will report back when I have changed the wiring. Don't forget that shunting the pot is so simple and you can experiment to your heart's content with resistor types - I am going to try some Welwyn 1% 1/4W today but many may rec. Vishay bulk foil - big wattage is'nt important here, most stepped att. are built using 1/4W.

Hold the phone Stuart,

i thought the guy spoke about welwyn wirewound resistors used to replace the 4 in parallel. You know the big brown ones near the mosfets and the one in the powersection. I forgot the name, but i think these are the same you are going to try out. But he was speaking of higher wattages though........

Well, you can read the value of the big resistors on the pictures. I cannot find anything on the black resistors used near the tubes though.

I'll get back to ya.

you can't use elna's; they are getting scarse and expensive and they wouldn't fit in anyway, he told me. They have only very few left and they would be too big in that place. 1 elna cerafine 100ufarads is 130 euro's.

As i said before, i changed the signal wires for audio note silver signal wire! I put shrinkrap over it so it has basically some protection and air dielectric, wich is superier to anything else.

According to them, it's the best for signal wiring amps. They use it for all their mods! 20 strands of very fine pure silver. A very thin wire.

I suggest Stuart, you take a look at the pictures again and you see the large scale of modification. Everything has been tackled. The signal wire, i allready did myself and was during stage one of modification.

Stuart,

that's one of the reasons i choose the vcap oimp caps, since they have very tight, articulate yet full bass.

As a matter afact, i don't like using earth at all. This is one of the reasons you have those loops etc that smear the sound.

 

[Black Stuart]

Hi Tourmaline,
many modders always uprate the wattage of resistors but this is simply not nec. for shunting the pot.

I'm happy you are getting very good sound from the Audionote wire but all my tests with signal wire show that better definition is found with solid core wire. Even if individual strands are enamelled, with time, this enamelling may well break down.

With my latest I/C, where I changed some of the wire used from s/plated copper to pure silver, I'm not at all sure I like the 'softness' that I feel is there now.

I shall I think, press ahead with moving the sig/wire input to the left hand side and solder my I/Cs direct to the pot.

You did say that the 1uF x 250V caps had been replaced by .47uF, which makes sense but that's why I need to know the values of the resistors around them. As the replacement Rs have very clear banding it should be easy for you to find there values. I shall ask the question on the WD forum as well.

I might well take you up the Papst fan thing but first let me try in the big city.

I think your fan innovation is very worthwhile and I intend to use it on mine and Angela's valve amps, by simply removing the bottom plates. As both our amps have extensive ventilation slots already on the top plates - it becomes so simple.

Hats off to Tourmaline.

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Stuart /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi Tourmaline, many modders always uprate the wattage of resistors but this is simply not nec. for shunting the pot. I'm happy you are getting very good sound from the Audionote wire but all my tests with signal wire show that better definition is found with solid core wire. Even if individual strands are enamelled, with time, this enamelling may well break down. With my latest I/C, where I changed some of the wire used from s/plated copper to pure silver, I'm not at all sure I like the 'softness' that I feel is there now. I shall I think, press ahead with moving the sig/wire input to the left hand side and solder my I/Cs direct to the pot. You did say that the 1uF x 250V caps had been replaced by .47uF, which makes sense but that's why I need to know the values of the resistors around them. As the replacement Rs have very clear banding it should be easy for you to find there values. I shall ask the question on the WD forum as well. I might well take you up the Papst fan thing but first let me try in the big city. I think your fan innovation is very worthwhile and I intend to use it on mine and Angela's valve amps, by simply removing the bottom plates. As both our amps have extensive ventilation slots already on the top plates - it becomes so simple. Hats off to Tourmaline.

Stuart, i am not sure wich resistors you are talking about. The most important are the 4 black ones but they are totally black, not any sign of identification on them. These are for controlling the tubes and most important. He also removed resistors wich weren't necessary useful or needed. There was much more done them simply replacing components.

I don't have the idea i am missing details, on the contrary; i have much, much more detail. The silver signals were designed specificaly for signal transport. The sound signature is more or less the same as it was with the bada, but much, much better detail, pinpoint accuracy, air and stage. The nordost IC's give the instruments and the voices just the right amount of body. Lovely.
Most cheap(er) cables lack detail and body, that's where high end cables shine; more detail and a believeable body for voices and instruments. I don't like thin sounding instruments or voices because it doesn't sound convincing.
This is also one of the reasons why i switched from a very expensive electrostatic system to this setup i have right now.
Only detail doesn't give you musical bliss.

It would be interesting to be able to compare all the differently modded bada's.

Would be the best thing; soldering the IC's straight to the pot. But since i have higher quality components and cables internally, i don't think i would be missing much compared to your direct soldering technique. Maybe shunting the pot will help.

No problem, if you cannot get the fan's i am happy to order them for you!

Just an evolution of things; you know i tried all passive posibilities, like drilling the bottom plate, after that drilling the top plate and side plates as well. None gave me the cooling i thought would be needed. So, the logical thing would be the active cooling.
Warning: don't throw away your bottom plate yet, as i said before you cannot put spikes or feet directly onto the bada chassis!

I will post a picture of how i tackled the problem.

Tbonner1;

you don't have to be afraid of using higher quality components shifting the sound signature. Mine is more or less the same but simply much better in every aspect as it was before. The slam and the deep bass is still there but better defined and remember that tubes also have huge influence in sound signature. You can change those very easally.

You don't have to wait 12 hours before you can switch the tubes. Half an hour is what i wait for before i switch tubes and i never blew a mosfet! So, half an hour for bleeding the caps is more then enough! I am not so sure i would want bleeding caps near the tubes, they have huge impact on the sound, the less the better! Once you have the setup you like, they don't serve any perpose but have a huge impact on sound. You don't switch tubes every day, do you?!

And take it from me, stuart, arthur and i allready tried most possible tube combo's and can advice you for a certain sound signature wich tubes to use.

So far best combo's are:
shuangang with 2 gta tubes in back.
rca gray top and 2 sylvania w's in back.
sylvania wgt and 2 raytheons in back.

 

[Black Stuart]

Tourmaline,
THERE ARE NO BLACK RESISTORS IN MY BADA - and that's for sure.

It's impossible just from the photos to ascertain the resistor values. With a multimeter you can measure all the values.

If a cap value is altered, the resistor values are as well.

Those Vcaps are they 2.7uf, if they are, this is in direct contradiction to Roam's suggested 1uF.

The small red caps soldered to the valve bases have been changed for what, they could be polystyrenes, I don't know but would think that they could make a significant quality difference.

Like you and anyone with a passing interest in quality sound knows that PSUs are so important to overall sound quality. Yes I can see what BG caps have been used but I can't see what has happened to the resistors on either side.

I have made another boo-boo - having fully dismantled the incoming sig/wires, I now see that Bada used quasi balanced cables here - that is they soldered a copper braid to the return wire from the pot only as I can see quite plainly you abandoned this approach, with no ill effects - good. However it will teach me to keep my mouth shut until I have dismantled a particular thing completely.

The two sets of 4 Rs (for the mosfets) are replaced by two wirewounds but what are the values, it is impossible to see from the photos and the original Rs have such indistinct colours - what have they been replaced with. I don't like these particular Rs and would rather replace them ASAP.

To sum up - an awful lot of mods have been done to Tourmalines Bada but we do need to know what values have been changed.

The incoming signal wire does'nt look anything special - what do you like - silver,silver plated copper or plain copper. If the last, I think that Dennis Boyles (Chimera Labs) CCC - continuous cast copper would be worth a try. Also this would include changing the signal and maybe return wires from the pot to PCB before any component changes are made.

Many things that I am asking Tourmaline to do require removing the PCB and that is why I DO NOT LIKE PCBs, they are a pain in the but, tagboards and point-to-point wiring are so much easier - end of rant.

As Tourmaline has said changing two pairs of caps and their associated Rs will yield great results - I would also add changing the incoming sig/wire is also important.

Then move on to tube rolling - but this comes last.

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Stuart /img/forum/go_quote.gif Tourmaline, THERE ARE NO BLACK RESISTORS IN MY BADA - and that's for sure. It's impossible just from the photos to ascertain the resistor values. With a multimeter you can measure all the values. If a cap value is altered, the resistor values are as well. Those Vcaps are they 2.7uf, if they are, this is in direct contradiction to Roam's suggested 1uF. The small red caps soldered to the valve bases have been changed for what, they could be polystyrenes, I don't know but would think that they could make a significant quality difference. Like you and anyone with a passing interest in quality sound knows that PSUs are so important to overall sound quality. Yes I can see what BG caps have been used but I can't see what has happened to the resistors on either side. I have made another boo-boo - having fully dismantled the incoming sig/wires, I now see that Bada used quasi balanced cables here - that is they soldered a copper braid to the return wire from the pot only as I can see quite plainly you abandoned this approach, with no ill effects - good. However it will teach me to keep my mouth shut until I have dismantled a particular thing completely. The two sets of 4 Rs (for the mosfets) are replaced by two wirewounds but what are the values, it is impossible to see from the photos and the original Rs have such indistinct colours - what have they been replaced with. I don't like these particular Rs and would rather replace them ASAP. To sum up - an awful lot of mods have been done to Tourmalines Bada but we do need to know what values have been changed. The incoming signal wire does'nt look anything special - what do you like - silver,silver plated copper or plain copper. If the last, I think that Dennis Boyles (Chimera Labs) CCC - continuous cast copper would be worth a try. Also this would include changing the signal and maybe return wires from the pot to PCB before any component changes are made. Many things that I am asking Tourmaline to do require removing the PCB and that is why I DO NOT LIKE PCBs, they are a pain in the but, tagboards and point-to-point wiring are so much easier - end of rant. As Tourmaline has said changing two pairs of caps and their associated Rs will yield great results - I would also add changing the incoming sig/wire is also important. Then move on to tube rolling - but this comes last.

I'll get back to you with some more info on the components but i have some other things to take care of first this weekend.

I know, the black resistors are new ones, but i cannot see any identification on them and the foot is soldered in completely to the pcb, so i am not sure i can measure those resistors but i'll try. I don't fancy taking out the pcb again though. The silver signal cable is not very long and snaps easally( it's very thin!).

As far as i know, all the large new red caps are black gate NX type of caps, since they are the best! Also better then elna's in that position.

Yes, i showed Mr. Venhause a picture of the pcb from the bada and he suggested a 2.7ufarad, since larger caps seem to have better low frequency responce! The speed and drive is even better then it was before, even with bigger caps. The bass is better articulated because of the better caps.

None taken.LOL. The blue alps isn't as good as this pot and balance is much better, no loops on the pot. Only strictly seperated contacts for left and right, meaning left in, earth and left out etc. No internal loops on the pot.
Also the pot has much more turns, so i can better finetune the power.

Well, on one of pictures you can clearly see the value of the resistor used in the powersection! It says: w22, 3k3!

 

[Black Stuart]

Well I changed all the signal and return wire in the Bada.

I decided that I would put into practice an idea I have had for some time, namely, to use the same wiring that I use in I/Cs.

I also replaced the RCA phonos for some quality silver/plated ones.

As Tourmaline has found - there is no need for sheilding on the incoming signal wires and I have routed them around the chassis using stick-on felt pads where the wiring needed to cross over caps. I also used the same wiring from the Alps pot to the PCB.

I have to admit to being very naughty, I also changed the shunt resistors from Vishay/Dale to Welwyn RC55s' at the same time.

Outcome - a very analogue sound, organic, foot tapping involvement and that's from a 63KI source. When I have sorted the problem with my Kenwood arm, I can only guess how good this modded h/amp will sound.

If you do nothing else change all the signal and return wire for quality wire of your choice, do not use sheilding on any of these changes and do try 'shunting (bipassing) the pot. get rid of the 1uF and 2.2uF Solen caps. You don't need to remove the PCB (with all that that entails) just snip the Solen legs and solder the replacement caps to these.

These easily effected changes can only be described as 'night and day' differences.

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Stuart /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well I changed all the signal and return wire in the Bada. I decided that I would put into practice an idea I have had for some time, namely, to use the same wiring that I use in I/Cs. I also replaced the RCA phonos for some quality silver/plated ones. As Tourmaline has found - there is no need for sheilding on the incoming signal wires and I have routed them around the chassis using stick-on felt pads where the wiring needed to cross over caps. I also used the same wiring from the Alps pot to the PCB. I have to admit to being very naughty, I also changed the shunt resistors from Vishay/Dale to Welwyn RC55s' at the same time. Outcome - a very analogue sound, organic, foot tapping involvement and that's from a 63KI source. When I have sorted the problem with my Kenwood arm, I can only guess how good this modded h/amp will sound. If you do nothing else change all the signal and return wire for quality wire of your choice, do not use sheilding on any of these changes and do try 'shunting (bipassing) the pot. get rid of the 1uF and 2.2uF Solen caps. You don't need to remove the PCB (with all that that entails) just snip the Solen legs and solder the replacement caps to these. These easily effected changes can only be described as 'night and day' differences.

I see you pick up the good things.
I only can agree, the difference of my total mod is like day and night. Not one step up but at least 3 steps up.

 

[pataburd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Stuart /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well I changed all the signal and return wire in the Bada. I decided that I would put into practice an idea I have had for some time, namely, to use the same wiring that I use in I/Cs. I also replaced the RCA phonos for some quality silver/plated ones. As Tourmaline has found - there is no need for sheilding on the incoming signal wires and I have routed them around the chassis using stick-on felt pads where the wiring needed to cross over caps. I also used the same wiring from the Alps pot to the PCB. I have to admit to being very naughty, I also changed the shunt resistors from Vishay/Dale to Welwyn RC55s' at the same time. Outcome - a very analogue sound, organic, foot tapping involvement and that's from a 63KI source. When I have sorted the problem with my Kenwood arm, I can only guess how good this modded h/amp will sound. If you do nothing else change all the signal and return wire for quality wire of your choice, do not use sheilding on any of these changes and do try 'shunting (bipassing) the pot. get rid of the 1uF and 2.2uF Solen caps. You don't need to remove the PCB (with all that that entails) just snip the Solen legs and solder the replacement caps to these. These easily effected changes can only be described as 'night and day' differences.

Tour/Stuart,
Please verify my proposed replacement components for a "truncated" mod:

replace 2x Solen 1.0uF/250v w/ 2x Dynamicap 0.47uF/425v,
replace 2x Solen 2.2uF/250v w/ 2x Dynamicap 1.00uF/425v,
replace 2x stock resistors w/ 2x Mills 5w/15k (or 4x Tantalum 2w/15k),
shunt potentiometer w/2x Tantalum 1w/56k.

Will also replace RCA inputs. Lastly, do you have a 24awg wiring source/recommendation for signal and return?

Thanks,
PatABurd

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pataburd /img/forum/go_quote.gif Tour/Stuart, Please verify my proposed replacement components for a "truncated" mod: replace 2x Solen 1.0uF/250v w/ 2x Dynamicap 0.47uF/425v, replace 2x Solen 2.2uF/250v w/ 2x Dynamicap 1.00uF/425v, replace 2x stock resistors w/ 2x Mills 5w/15k (or 4x Tantalum 2w/15k), shunt potentiometer w/2x Tantalum 1w/56k. Will also replace RCA inputs. Lastly, do you have a 24awg wiring source/recommendation for signal and return? Thanks, PatABurd

I used the 20 litz very fine pure silver signal wire from audio note.
Note that there's the new teflon caps from solen now. You could give these a try, since they suppose to be very close to the venhause teflon caps.
http://www.partsconnexion.com/econne...ruary2006.html

scroll down and you'll see the new solen teflon caps.

I wouldn't replace the 2.2ufarad caps for 1ufarad caps! Bigger caps have better low frequency responce and you might loose some detail in the lower end using just 1 ufarad caps. I use 2.7ufarad caps in there, yes, even slightly higher rated and the bass is unbelievably low, tight and detailed.

If you go audio note tantalum, you should get the 2 watt versions, they sound best. They sound better then the 1 watt or 1/2 watt resistors.