Mobile fidelity or not for Pink Floyd
Aug 27, 2008 at 4:10 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 30

j24

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I want to buy The dark side of the moon and I'm trying to determin which cd version to buy as far as SQ. got the following from the stevehoffman site

Toshiba/Emi CP 35-3017 (black traingle)
Harvest CP 35-3017 (inner ring)
Capitol/Harvest CDP 7460012
MFSL UD1
MFSL UDII
Shine On box
20th anniversary edition
Capitol/Emi remaster from 1992
SACD redbook layer
SACD stereo layer

I was going to buy the mobile fidelity version but should I go for the 20th anniversary edition. The japanese cds are a bit too expensive for my taste.
thanks for the help.
 
Aug 27, 2008 at 4:15 PM Post #2 of 30
If you can, get the black triangle. I had that CD, and now i have the one in the "Oh by the way" boxset. The difference is quite evident. I sold my other one for a tidy profit, but i am now missing it. If i find a non overpriced deal on it, i would jump on it, and i suggest you do the same.
 
Aug 27, 2008 at 4:42 PM Post #3 of 30
I am aware of this but it's rare and could be fake. in the meantime, if I want a more readily available version which one should I get: should I go the 20th anniversary or something else?
 
Aug 27, 2008 at 5:42 PM Post #6 of 30
Quote:

Originally Posted by j24 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I am aware of this but it's rare and could be fake. in the meantime, if I want a more readily available version which one should I get: should I go the 20th anniversary or something else?


oh, my bad. well, ill try and find some info, it shouldn't be too hard for dark side of the moon.
 
Aug 27, 2008 at 6:35 PM Post #7 of 30
If you have SACD capabilities, then the SACD layer is very nice. Otherwise, the best I've heard is the MoFi release. Havne't heard the infamous Black Triangle.
 
Aug 27, 2008 at 11:22 PM Post #8 of 30
At the risk of sounding even stupider, what's a black triangle? A label or something?
 
Aug 28, 2008 at 12:12 AM Post #9 of 30
The SACD is fine. I had the MFSL limited edition box LP release, and the SACD sounds just as good if not better. I sold the LP version as soon as I compared them.

See ya
Steve
 
Aug 28, 2008 at 6:19 AM Post #10 of 30
Quote:

Originally Posted by WolfyWolf Von Wolfenstein /img/forum/go_quote.gif
At the risk of sounding even stupider, what's a black triangle? A label or something?


The fabled "Holy Grail", It's the Toshiba japan first pressing from 1983. It has a Black triangle on the CD and is allegedly the best issue around. Shame it is so rare.
 
Aug 28, 2008 at 8:47 AM Post #11 of 30
Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The SACD is fine. I had the MFSL limited edition box LP release, and the SACD sounds just as good if not better. I sold the LP version as soon as I compared them.

See ya
Steve



You can't fairly compare two different formats. Maybe your SACD player is great and your vinyl system is lacking.

Nice thing about the "black triangle" is that its digital. Maybe one day it will pass your way. * actually I'll let you know how it sounds in 5 hours and 27 minutes
wink.gif
* I've heard the MFSL version (on CD -- and a copy from a friend) and I think it's about a 10-15 percent improvement over most of the commercial releases and 20th anniversary release, of which I have both. Haven't heard the sacd, but most of the guys here seem to think it the best readily available.

IF you REALLY want to get into it, you can peruse this thread. Personally, it give me a headache. http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/sh...t=51866&page=7
 
Aug 28, 2008 at 9:24 AM Post #14 of 30
Quote:

Originally Posted by G-man /img/forum/go_quote.gif
any idea what pre-emphasis means with regard to playing the album? wiki was not very usefull. the black triangle is said to not need pre-emphasis, but others are.
confused_face.gif


Also, found this:

Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon, the BIG thread: in search of the Holy Grail CD - SH Forums
I doubt you will find more detailed info anywhere else on the web.



I'm not quite sure, but this offers some insight.

"Updated information with the latest findings.

If you are lucky enough to have a Japanese Black Face or a genuine Black Triangle CD with Sound Signature #1 handy you are going to like this.

If you aren't lucky (or wealthy) enough to afford paying 50-100$ for that CD, don't worry, I might have some good news for you too.

More on that later.

Sound Signature #1 was recorded with Pre-Emphasis tags, a practice in use before 1985, when the Redbook standard wasn't too solidly implemented and CD players came with a DE-EMPHASIS switch that you could turn on or off at will.

From here
What is Pre-Emphasis?

Some old CD tracks are recorded high frequency with emphasis. When the track is playbacked, CD player reduces high frequency. As a result, offensive high frequency noise is reduced. This process is called de-emphasis. Most CD players have a de-emphasis circuit internally, but some recent cheap players don't have it.

Emphasis of Music CD

A pre-emphasis used for music CD is 15/50 microsec. This is called CD-DA emphasis too. A response increases from 0dB to 10.45dB with a frequency increases from 3.18KHz(50microsec) to 10.6KHz(15microsec).



In order to succesfully listen to a Japanese Black Face or genuine Japanese Black Triangle with foobar, the following steps have to be done:

Get Foobar special version

Then follow these steps in order to load the 50-15 De-Emphasis
50-15 De-Emphasis WAVE (Hit "Free download" to get the file)



Now you need to load the 50-15_De-Emphasis impulse wave:


Hit play.

Notice the hiss, sibilance and background noise removal in the upper frequencies.

Enjoy.

As anything related with subjective measurements, some people might like another Sound Signature better, specially the MFSL Ultradisc (or II, I have yet to confirm if there is, if any, a difference between these two and in that case why this might be).

The important thing is that this is how Black Faces and genuine Black Triangles were intended to sound like when they were produced more than 20 years ago.


I want to thank AntoniosT for pointing towards the convolver on foobar and other research and two anonymous persons, one of whom helped with massive De-Emphasis research and blind ABXing as AntoniosT did, and the other built the 50-15_De-Emphasis.wav impulse wave according to the Redbook standard specs.
 
Aug 28, 2008 at 9:35 AM Post #15 of 30
hmm, so if i get this right, if you have the black triangle (Sound Signature #2, Peak Values: 87.8, 94.7, 100) then there is no need to fiddle around with that pre-emphasis stuff right?
 

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