[Aman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thelonious Monk /img/forum/go_quote.gif i don't have to compare linkin park to any single other musician to know i don't like it. to even the playing field, i also dislike anthony "diagrams" braxton.

Fine. Doesn't mean he's a bad musician. Just as my liking him doesn't necessarily make him good (though he is), anybody else's liking of Linkin Park doesn't make them good either (though they aren't).

Nobody was comparing anybody to anyone else. Merely contrasting. But it would be unfair to not judge a musician based on the entire history of music, its qualities, and its theories.

It's not evening the playing field at all to say you dislike the man's work. Most people in the world probably don't! It doesn't make him any better or worse of a musician now that you've exposed this.

 

[Thelonious Monk]

i just wanted to indicate to the other side of the argument that i'm not biased or kissing your ass, that's all, no offense intended.

 

[Aman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thelonious Monk /img/forum/go_quote.gif i just wanted to indicate to the other side of the argument that i'm not biased or kissing your ass, that's all, no offense intended.

My apologies. I definitely read your initial post incorrectly, looking back at it now...

 

[jdimitri]

Well.. what i found with people is that LP hasn't gotten worse in general, people just grew out of it

And as for the new album.. well, i can't really say disappointed because i was expecting the stuff i grew to dislike

Ps take this as merely another musician's opinion, but you don't have to be a great musician to write great songs..

 

[Gnus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aman /img/forum/go_quote.gif Fine. Doesn't mean he's a bad musician. Just as my liking him doesn't necessarily make him good (though he is), anybody else's liking of Linkin Park doesn't make them good either (though they aren't). Nobody was comparing anybody to anyone else. Merely contrasting. But it would be unfair to not judge a musician based on the entire history of music, its qualities, and its theories. It's not evening the playing field at all to say you dislike the man's work. Most people in the world probably don't! It doesn't make him any better or worse of a musician now that you've exposed this.

This is where our views differ. You base how "good" artists are solely on talent, but that's shouldn't be the only thing. The whole purpose of a musician is to create music that people will enjoy listening to and like I said, no matter how much talent you have, if no one enjoys your music, then that's where you fail as a musician.

So let me get this straight, from your point of view, musicians are called "good" based on talent, innovation, etc. etc. EVEN if you yourself don't like them? If that's the case, then that just doesn't make any sense.

Let's assume you didn't like Braxton. Would you listen to his music, comment that "he started writing brilliant improvisational structures and quirky compositions, and now, 30 years later, he's completed a system by which an ensemble can play any one of his 350+ compositions simultaneously with a limitless number of other things going on in the background, all the while making complete musical sense.", comment that he's definately a "good" musician, then say you don't like his work though and wouldn't ever buy a CD of his?

If a friend asked you for recommendations on a "good" artist, would you still give out his recommendation, even though you dislike him yourself? "Yeah, you should definately check him out, he's a great musician, though I personally hate him and would never listen to his music."

In the end, "good" or "bad" is still determined by people, all with varied tastes in music and opinions, so there can't be a general consensus of what's "good" or "bad".

 

[wnmnkh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace o' Spades /img/forum/go_quote.gif Am I the only one who doesn't think this album was a complete train wreck? Some of the songs were pretty good IMO.

Another person here. Yeah, songs like Given Up is truly crappy, but some others are actually OK....

 

[NightWoundsTime]

Like Aman I'm very interested in the history of music, seeing a musician's growth, and berating others choices in top 40 crap. That said I listen to what I like, and I won't argue for a second that some of the bands I like are any better than Linkin Park. For sake of example I'm way into the new Modest Mouse, and generally feel that they're more creative than LP. But looking at their evolution through the years they were pretty crappy in the beginning and have simply refined their pop sensibilities while at least still keeping an edge of insanity with their newer albums. The recording quality is just as bad, they're on a major label, and they were featured heavily in the glory days of The O.C. That makes them very worthy of my scorn but I just can't stay angry at them, they throw some crazy curveballs and I'm happy to play along.

I personally hate Linkin Park because of their annoying whiny vocals and lyrics, electronic embellishments that already sounded dated in 2000, and omnipresence on the radio and in my friends' collections. I had a friend who I consider to be very intelligent tell me that he was REALLY looking forward to this new album. Did I want to murder him? Yes, most definitely. But then he falls into that category of being young enough for LP to be a voice for his 15 year old frustrations. My teenage frustrations got vented into christian rock like DC Talk so who the hell am I to judge?

There's very little of the type of super intellectual music that Aman champions that I can stand to listen to. I like some 20th century classical now and then, but I haven't heard a single note of Zorn that clicked with me, haven't even tried Braxton. King Crimson are my personal heroes for all the factors of growth and invention, but I wouldn't expect most people to be able to listen to them as regularly as I do. I get in the mood for them regularly but more often I just want to hear some good solid tunes. Melody and lyrics please, and reserve the judgement on its place in the history of music for later (5 years down the road I'll know how it fits into MY personal history, and from there I can extrapolate to the rest of the world).