[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyrion No one said you don't travel to meets with your amps or let others listen to them. I didn't say you shyed away from comparisons. That was not the point of my post. I was responding to what was posted, qualifying it by stating that it assumes doc made the offer. If he made the offer to trade amps for a week or so, that seems to be a more than reasonable solution, if the idea is to compare the two amps. Meets are the best places, short of buying gear to try gear. However, they are far from the best places to do a real comparison of amps. This is one of the most often stated qualifications of opinions on gear at meets. I can't count the number of times this has been said in meet impression threads. I've hosted 2 meets and a couple of mini meets and unless the Ohio ones are different, there is always a lot of other things going on. I personally go to meets to meet the other people. Of course I make comparison and at times make buying decisions at meets. However, I wouldn't do a comparative review of 2 pieces of gear at a meet. That would not be fair to either item. I was not overly impressed with the SDS-XLR at the Florida meet. There was simply too much going on. I heard the same amp at Hirsch's and posted what I thought, which was that the 650's never sounded better. There is no question that the sq of Singlepower amps is well known. That is not the point. The question is hear is how does the Bada sound in comparison. If an offer was made to trade gear then I feel that is a better way to do a comparison, then at a meet, imo. Somehow I think Singlepower amps are certainly capable of being shipped without damage. They are shipped by Mikhail all the time. They are shipped between people that buy them used. I don't believe you are suggesting that a Singlepower amp isn't sturdy enough to withstand the rigors of shipping. If you don't want to ship your gear, no problem, but don't criticise doc because he feels that a trade of gear is a better method of comparison. I can't believe I am defending him.

1) The idea was not mine to compare the amps. He originally wanted to trade because he wanted to hear the Singlepower. I didnt know him and I didnt care enough about hearing the Bada to risk the potential loss and aggravation of shipping my amp to some unknown person. I still dont.

2) My offer is NOT about an in depth comparison its about impressions. This isnt about my opinion but the general consensus about his claims. We have a review here and its being challenged so if I trade amps and have findings he doesnt agree with, will anything be any different. I dont think so. But what I do want to know is the general opinions. I keep reading the Bada can outperform $2000 amps per Mr. Wells. Think about the list of under $2000 amps this includes ..... Raptor, MPX3, Supra, SFT dynahi, EC 2A3i, Meier Prehead, Woo2 etc... etc... Do you believe these claims? You dont have questions that these claims seem exaggerated? You dont think a basic determination can be made as to if this amp is equal to those other amps at a meet? A meet offers the chance for multiple comparisons and multiple opinions and is much more valid than my single opinion.


3) No the question is not how does the Bada sound in comparison to the Singlepower and it never has been. The question is does the Bada outperform all $2000 amps and equal those that are even more expensive. Thats the claim and its been repeated over and over. Thats why I extended the offer. I am giving him the opportunity to validate atleast some of his claims. If he is so sure the amp is as amazing as he claims here is his chance.

4) Sure the Singlepower amps can be shipped but that former offer has nothing to do with this one. This isnt a about a comparison to a specific amp its about a comparison to a whole price class of amps. As I have already stated I dont care to get into a personal he says ..... he says. A meet environment with people with no vested interest one way or the other is more than fair. Especially with every effort to recreate his exact listening setup. We arent looking for a definitive assessment ..... or atleast I am not ..... just a basic does the Bada compare to the other expensive and highly regarded amps or not.

 

[IronLion]

I think SACDlover explained the challenge here pretty clearly. Drarthurwells, at this point all you need is to say yes or no to the challenge. I don't think SACDlover's gonna change his position on this so even if you don't think a meet is a "fair" place for people to judge the Bada, a yes or no is all that is needed.

 

[tyrion]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover 1) The idea was not mine to compare the amps. He originally wanted to trade because he wanted to hear the Singlepower. I didnt know him and I didnt care enough about hearing the Bada to risk the potential loss and aggravation of shipping my amp to some unknown person. I still dont.

If the idea was not a comparison of the Bada to a strictly tube amp (I thought that was the point), in particular one that's at a higher price than the Bada, then no need to do it. If attempting to validate (or not) his claims is the issue than it would require a comparison to those other amps, not just 10 or 15 people at a meet listening to the amp.


Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover 2) My offer is NOT about an in depth comparison its about impressions. This isnt about my opinion but the general consensus about his claims. We have a review here and its being challenged so if I trade amps and have findings he doesnt agree with, will anything be any different. I dont think so. But what I do want to know is the general opinions. I keep reading the Bada can outperform $2000 amps per Mr. Wells. Think about the list of under $2000 amps this includes ..... Raptor, MPX3, Supra, SFT dynahi, EC 2A3i, Meier Prehead, Woo2 etc... etc... Do you believe these claims? You dont have questions that these claims seem exaggerated? You dont think a basic determination can be made as to if this amp is equal to those other amps at a meet? A meet offers the chance for multiple comparisons and multiple opinions and is much more valid than my single opinion.

I certainly agree with you regarding his claims. I've been saying this privately and thinking for a long time. If you read my earlier posts you know I don't agree with his opinions. However, getting a general consensus still doesn't answer the question. I don't feel that any amp or headphone should by judged at the typical meet as I know them. People can do it all they want and make buying decisions based on their meet impressions but I would not make a conclusion as to whether one is better than the other without a more in depth comparison. If the issue here is to disprove docs sometimes silly statements, then I still feel that a meet is not the place to do it. Giving him the same opportunity seemed fair, despite his statements as to superiority of the Bada with doing the comparison, ab initio. This is why I said it's time for both to put up or shut up (perhaps that was too strong but I just copied what you wrote).

If he wants to ship to us for the meet on Saturday, we would love to have it. I would be involved in the evaluation as I've already shown a bias relative to my statements as to how I feel about the comments he has made.

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyrion If the idea was not a comparison of the Bada to a strictly tube amp (I thought that was the point), in particular one that's at a higher price than the Bada, then no need to do it. If attempting to validate (or not) his claims is the issue than it would require a comparison to those other amps, not just 10 or 15 people at a meet listening to the amp.

I thought the issue was whether the Bada outperforms any amp under $2000 amps and equals those that are even more expensive, such that anyone looking for an amp with $450 or more to spend should not choose amp other than the Bada? That seems to be the claim that has been frequently made. While meets are not ideal, it would seem that the 15 or so of the intelligent, experienced listeners who attend such meets from this forum would be able to render a pretty good evaluation of such a claim, based on their own previous listening experiences and by listening to whatever other amps are at the meet. Yes, they may not be able to rank all the amps in the world in order, and place the Bada in a specific position in a ranking of amps, but it would seem they could come to some conclusion about whether it really is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

 

[EdipisReks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilS I thought the issue was whether the Bada outperforms any amp under $2000 amps and equals those that are even more expensive, such that anyone looking for an amp with $450 or more to spend should not choose amp other than the Bada? That seems to be the claim that has been frequently made. While meets are not ideal, it would seem that the 15 or so of the intelligent, experienced listeners who attend such meets from this forum would be able to render a pretty good evaluation of such a claim, based on their own previous listening experiences and by listening to whatever other amps are at the meet. Yes, they may not be able to rank all the amps in the world in order, and place the Bada in a specific position in a ranking of amps, but it would seem they could come to some conclusion about whether it really is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

ding!

 

[tyrion]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilS I thought the issue was whether the Bada outperforms any amp under $2000 amps and equals those that are even more expensive, such that anyone looking for an amp with $450 or more to spend should not choose amp other than the Bada? That seems to be the claim that has been frequently made. While meets are not ideal, it would seem that the 15 or so of the intelligent, experienced listeners who attend such meets from this forum would be able to render a pretty good evaluation of such a claim, based on their own previous listening experiences and by listening to whatever other amps are at the meet. Yes, they may not be able to rank all the amps in the world in order, and place the Bada in a specific position in a ranking of amps, but it would seem they could come to some conclusion about whether it really is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

If that is the way sacdlover and others want to do it, then go for it. I don't believe it answers the question but others are free to disagree.

 

[IronLion]

Bump for inactivity- lets get this over with.

 

[dmb367]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronLion Bump for inactivity- lets get this over with.

what?

 

[IronLion]

What what?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmb367 what?

 

[pjr300]

Send them both to my house... I'll compare them for ya.....

 

[drarthurwells]

sacd lover: The idea was not mine to compare the amps. He originally wanted to trade because he wanted to hear the Singlepower. I didnt know him and I didnt care enough about hearing the Bada to risk the potential loss and aggravation of shipping my amp to some unknown person. I still dont.

Art: False.

[size=x-small]My offer to trade amps for an in depth comparison of your best SP Slam against my Bada PH12 was in response to your questioning my claims of the Bada. I offered to trade amps for an in depth audition in order for you to hear the Bada more than for me to hear your SP Slam, and even prefaced this offer by saying that you should really listen to it.[/size]

Anyone who is content to evaluate components in a meet will miss out on subtle yet important distinctions between components so evaluated, which will lead to erroneous conlusions that we see repeatedly made on this site, such as, "The Sony SA5000 headphone is lacking in detail."

You hide behing a fear my trustworthiness, which you know to be unfounded based on our past dealings, and a fear of damge in shipment, as reasons for not doing a trade.

So let's trade, and each report our findings on this forum.

I am sure that the best amp for under $2000, in your opinion, is the one owned by you. Let's do the trade, each shipping back on the 7th after receipt. My only condition is that we each listen exclusively to each other's amp during the first 5 days of evaluation, and do so with only the recommended tubes. This is needed to build a memory base of subtle sound qualities. After the fifth day we each can roll tubes, etc.

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by drarthurwells sacd lover: The idea was not mine to compare the amps. He originally wanted to trade because he wanted to hear the Singlepower. I didnt know him and I didnt care enough about hearing the Bada to risk the potential loss and aggravation of shipping my amp to some unknown person. I still dont. Art: False. [size=x-small]My offer to trade amps for an in depth comparison of your best SP Slam against my Bada PH12 was in response to your questioning my claims of the Bada. I offered to trade amps for an in depth audition in order for you to hear the Bada more than for me to hear your SP Slam, and even prefaced this offer by saying that you should really listen to it.[/size] Anyone who is content to evaluate components in a meet will miss out on subtle yet important distinctions between components so evaluated, which will lead to erroneous conlusions that we see repeatedly made on this site, such as, "The Sony SA5000 headphone is lacking in detail." You hide behing a fear my trustworthiness, which you know to be unfounded based on our past dealings, and a fear of damge in shipment, as reasons for not doing a trade. So let's trade, and each report our findings on this forum. I am sure that the best amp for under $2000, in your opinion, is the one owned by you. Let's do the trade, each shipping back on the 7th after receipt. My only condition is that we each listen exclusively to each other's amp during the first 5 days of evaluation, and do so with only the recommended tubes. This is needed to build a memory base of subtle sound qualities. After the fifth day we each can roll tubes, etc.

Lets get something straight ... IT WAS YOUR IDEA. Secondly, I had never had ANY dealings with you at that point you wished to trade. Your semi-repair of the E5 occured later. Third I explained how much trouble I have had with shipping in my area. If you want to do a search I am sure there are several referances to this if you need to refresh your memory.

Next if you want to prove your point .... its simple ..... make the amp available so people can hear the amp. This trade amps spin is a nothing more than a way to avoid backing up your claims. I stated this will not be me against you up front. I want multiple opinions .... not just mine .... and I would think you would too. Thats why I offered to pay to have the amp shipped to a meet. Honestly, with your continual promotion of all things cattylink produced do I believe there would be anything appoaching an accurate assessment from you. No I dont. Anytime anyone disagrees with you you declare them wrong and act as if you are the final determinant of whats right. We had an opinon here and did you accept the opinion ..... NO .... so why would you accept my opinion if it was not what you wanted to hear. In case its not clear, I am not nearly as interested in the Bada amp as I am whether your continual claims have any truth.

A meet is a suitable local. If the Bada is so much better than the other $2000 amps that will be READILY apparent. This is about your continual claims that the Bada surpasses all the amps under $2000 ..... and is different but equal to the amps over $2000. Bada the best amp at any price ...... well put the amp in the hands of people so they can hear the amp. Since I have an E5 I can essentially duplicate your system so what better place than the Cinci meet. They have an E5 available at the Miami meet too.

Proving your claims is up to you. I made an offer that could go a long way towards doing so for you. If you are interested PM me. If not .... dont.

 

[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by drarthurwells Anyone who is content to evaluate components in a meet will miss out on subtle yet important distinctions between components so evaluated, which will lead to erroneous conlusions that we see repeatedly made on this site, such as, "The Sony SA5000 headphone is lacking in detail."

I'm sorry Art, but just because someone disagrees with you does not make them wrong. Grow up.

 

[noypi]

aureus hates sa-5000 on any set-up
art loves sa-5000 in his bada

how are they supposed to agree with each other???

also....

if aureus is entitled to his own opinion that the sa5000 sounds bad, why shouldnt the doctor be entitled to his opinion???






excited about the meet impressions......

 

[tkam]

Quote:

Originally Posted by noypi if aureus is entitled to his own opinion that the sa5000 sounds bad, why shouldnt the doctor be entitled to his opinion???

He is entitled to his opinion, its the manner in which he states his opinion as fact that is wrong.