[jude]

[size=xx-small] Quote:

Originally posted by sTaTIx Fixup, you didn't do anything wrong, therefore, there is no need for you to leave. Clearly, there was some sort of misunderstanding between you and Jude, but such an incident does not force you out of posting at this forum, especially since you were not banned, and especially since so many people appreciate your presence here. I'm somewhat in-between on this issue. On one hand, Fixup did very well seem to have that advertising, self-promotional sense about him. But one could make the case that he's just very enthusiastic, and, um, exuberant about his works and his hobby, which made him seem all the more commercial. But that's just what he was doing, a hobby. Sure, he gets a lot of sales, but so do the other amp builders on this board (JMT, Tangent... etc.). And at only 60-80 bucks a pop, he couldn't have been making much money. He just seemed genuinely devoted to his hobby and technology in general. On the other hand, I could see where Jude can view Fixup's posts as blatant commercialism. Maybe Jude was pissed by Fixup's because he thought that he was being overtly disobedient of the rules in this regard. Maybe he found Fixup's antics to err on the side of sanctimonious. But whatever the case was, it doesn't excuse the way Jude handled the matter, or conducted with Fixup, particularly in his last post. Calling a member an "ass" and saying that he pisses you off, you don't condone that kind of address from members, let alone expect it from a moderator. Then, out of a completely unnecessary act of spitefulness, you then proceeded to claim that Fixup's amp wasn't the best portable amp, yours was (whether or not this was said in jest, Im not completely sure). Jude, as a mod, I don't believe you set a good example for the rest of the membership. Not only that, but you probably ended up pissing Fixup off and defacing him to the point where he feels compelled to leave. So, to conclude, I can certainly understand where Jude was coming from when admonishing Fixup. I just found Jude's last post to be unduly hostile, and mindbogglingly unexpected.

[/size]

sTaTIx,

Thanks for the thorough message. I think, however, you have to read, in their entireties, what are now three total threads involving this Fixup-related issue (including this thread), and maybe then you'll reconsider what you're saying; then again, maybe not, but at least you'll understand better some of the things you're misunderstanding now.

Let's go over the general sequence of events:

1. Jan Meier posted his thread on the PRE-HEAD. It was an ad, but I didn't catch it until it had become a thread. I locked the thread when I saw it. This was a while ago (see that thread for the last post date to get an idea when this occurred).
2. Fixup posted an ad (the first thread in question regarding Fixup). I wrote him an e-mail message letting him know it was an ad. He replied that he thought it'd be okay because of Jan's thread. I explained to him that Jan's thread was an ad, and that it was locked. Fixup, if I remember correctly, re-posted his post sans text, just the photos, which, given the fact that he sells the products in the photos, is an ad. I did notice this thread, but sort of let it go (letting it go, I admit, was probably a mistake).
3. Another DIY'er-turned-seller (not Fixup) also started an ad thread some time ago. It was deleted, and he was notified. He posted just the photos, and I interpreted it as a project post -- I even commented in the revised post that it was a nice amp. But then this poster (again, not Fixup) made other ad-type comments and posts. I warned him a couple of times. The behavior continued, and he was banned for a week. His thread was pruned of ad material then locked.
4. Considering that, I thought I had to be fair and be more careful to try to catch these things earlier (this rule, by the way, is not new, and has been effect since November 15, 2001), so I decided to close Fixup's thread in the interest of fairness to the others, who had threads I closed for like reasons.
5. millerdog asked about it in a new thread. I answered with a brief reply that I felt explained my position. It blossomed into a longer thread than I expected, and, in it, I think I explained my reasons ad nauseam.
6. Somewhere in the millerdog thread, Fixup got the idea that I was hinting that he was being sneaky and dishonest. I re-read my posts in that thread, and didn't pick up that vibe from me at all; and I never intended to hint that he was being sneaky. I replied in that thread that I did not intend to hint that Fixup was being sneaky, and apologized if he or anyone else thought I did come off that way. Again, re-reading all of my posts in that thread even now, I don't get the impression I said he was sneaky or dishonest, nor do I feel I even tried hinting at that, as it wasn't my intent.
7. Now here, sTaTIx, is where you seem to get completely lost in my most recent responses in this thread. My angry response to Fixup in this thread was regarding this quote from Fixup (in this thread):
   [size=xx-small] Quote:
   
   

   Originally posted by Fixup ....Also, I guess, some big brothers don't like such comparisons. The following post did mention Headroom Supreme (listed at $449). Unfortunately that thread was blocked right after that post. A coincidence? http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showt...943#post195943

   
   
   [/size]Fixup is obviously suggesting that the thread was locked by me (as I had clearly stated it was me who locked the thread) as a "big brother" move, either at the request of HeadRoom, or out of my own desire to protect HeadRoom, because a Supreme was mentioned in the last post prior to the closing of the thread. Long story short, he's suggesting that I'm a dishonest pawn of the sponsors. And this is why I responded the way I did -- because he's suggesting that I'd show little enough integrity to do such a thing, which is patently absurd. HeadRoom made no such request (nor have they or any other sponsor ever made such requests), and I didn't close the thread in any way to protect them. As I'd stated earlier, I hadn't even read that entire thread. Looking back at that post of his, it still ticks me off, and I won't retract my angry response, as there was no retraction on his part of the suggestion. So his clear suggestion stands, and my response stands in opposition.[size=xx-small] Quote:
   
   

   Originally posted by sTaTIx ....Then, out of a completely unnecessary act of spitefulness, you then proceeded to claim that Fixup's amp wasn't the best portable amp, yours was (whether or not this was said in jest, Im not completely sure)....

   
   
   [/size]
8. Secondly, regarding your comment (above) about the META42, I have no idea what you're getting at. This is what I said:[size=xx-small] Quote:
   
   

   Originally posted by jude ....And I also happened to mention in another thread earlier that my new hopped-up META42 is currently my best portable amp -- but why the hell should I feel I even have to explain that to you?

   
   
   [/size]
   My point was that Head-Fi has two sponsors that make portable headphone amps, and I own one of the models from one of them. Fixup was suggesting that I have problems and wish to lock threads of those who'd compare less expensive DIY-type amps to these sponsors' products. My point was that, considering this suggestion, why the heck would I have pointed out a META42 is currently the best portable I've got? I have no idea how you interpreted this as attacking Fixup's product(s) -- I don't own anything by him, nor have I tried any of his products even once. Again, my point was to drive home the fact that I have no fear or aversion to liking -- and making it known -- a DIY'er product of a particular product class more than sponsors' products in that same product class. I think you way misunderstood that META42 comment, and I feel it safe to say that most interpreted it as I intended it to be interpreted.

So there ya have it. It is what it is. If Fixup leaves, there's nothing I can do about it. He has been treated no less fairly than any of the other commercial entities (Jan Meier, Tyll Hertsens, antness, audiocubes, and several more) who've also had posts/threads edited/deleted/closed by me. Even prior to my angry response to his suggestions of my impropriety, he thought, for whatever reason, that he was treated differently than others who've had like posts/threads edited, deleted, or closed, and that's just not true. In fact, I'm having private conversations with, and even had a phone call with, the banned DIY'er-turned-seller (not Fixup, as he's not banned -- I'm saying this only to prevent any more confusion) to try to work out possible ways for the DIY'er-turned-seller community to maybe sponsor a Sponsor Forum as a group (there's still a lot more to consider with this idea). Yeah, that's right -- there's a banned DIY'er-turned-seller who's actually communicating with me privately to try to help me come up with an idea to possibly help DIY'er-turned-sellers with promotional opportunities on Head-Fi. He was banned, he wrote me to tell me he understood why, and then wrote me to make a whole bunch of potentially very good suggestions -- and I'm listening.

 

[Fixup]

Thank you guys, kerelybonto, Tim D and others, especially for your time. I had my posts deleted before and no any problem then. It is just this time, I saw so heavy criticisms in a thread and that thread was started about the locking of my thread, I had no idea what I did so wrong and to believe the criticisms were not aginst me. Other than that, the discussion over there was good helping to make the rules clearer. So I said "But this is my last post to this thread to avoid more personal stuff being mixed into the discussuion".
I'll miss you guys too, very much. In fact, whenever people came to me for some questions I could not answer, such as those regarding HD580/600 which I don't have, I always directed them to headwize, head-fi and headroom. I always told them there were very nice and knowledgable guys over there and they would be more than happy to answer your questions. These nice guys of course include all the moderators who are meanwhile participants.
I've learnt a lot from you guys too, especially from the Meta42 team and whoever contributed to it. To me, what the Meta42 and alike means to audio is what Linux to computer. However, making things totally free is wrong, just don't rip off is good enough. If anyone wants to make my super mini and sell them, please do! Just don't rip off people, especially poor students. I don't think anyone could though, because I'll always set a bottom line there for you to compete. JMT and others have given us very good examples for offering the best at the lowest price.
I've said many times, and here say it again: all these have been made possible, because of Internet and websites like this, headwize, headroom, tangentsoft, mine, and many many others.
Sorry, I'm just ass stubborn. Again, thank you all for your time and nice words. Let's stop right now and put it behind.

This is an addition: just after I posted this post, I saw the post before it. I did not read it fully because it is useless to argue about who's wrong, who's right, who started it first. If I attacked someone due to misunderstanding, even though I had very good reasons to have that misunderstanding, I still apologize here. The key point is: even if a member gets attacked by another member in a way that's not allowed by the rules or indecent, it is more wrong to react in the same or even worse way. A website onwer should know this better than anyone else does. On this regards, Bobby did a very good example when he showed his anger on my non-respect to moderators. He did not use any indecent words, but still made his point very heavy, clear and loud. If he had used any dirty words on me, I would have never bothered to explain to him. This is the key.

 

[mikeg]

I read all the communications between Fixup and jude, and they sadden me. At least I benefited by looking up Fixup's web page, and placing an order for one of his modified FM radios. From their communications it's clear that jude is doing his best to maintain reasonable compliance with rules regarding self promotion for the purpose of commercialization. It's also clear that Fixup is an extremely valuable Head-Fi member, and that he is deeply offended. It's also clear that jude holds no anger toward Fixup, while Fixup's main problem is hurt pride. So, for the sake of us silent readers of your messages, and in oder to permit so many of us to continue gaining knowledge from both of you, please, please bring this matter to a constructive conclusion. Fixup, please reverse your decision, and continue your participation in this group. And jude, please symbolically extend your hand to Fixup, and encourage him to continue his participation for the benefit of many of us.

 

[jude]

Fixup is more than welcome to continue posting here. The choice is his, as he has not been banned or asked not to post.

 

[TimSchirmer]

Fixup: Get back here! Once you're in da family, you're always in da family. You don't even have your HD600's yet!!!! (angels earn their wings, head-fiers earn their HD600's)

Jude:You are in no way corporate pawn, although it would be nice to see you give some negative equipment reviews every now and then

I have great respect for you as a reviewer, and as an individual, not to mention the fact that you have cooler toys than me.

 

[jude]

[size=xx-small] Quote:

Originally posted by TimSchirmer ....And jude, keep your reviews nice and unbiased... don't get all buttered up like our friends at stereophile ....

Quote:

Originally posted by TimSchirmer awww come on jude... which ones suck?

Quote:

Originally posted by TimSchirmer ....Jude:You are in no way corporate pawn, although it would be nice to see you give some negative equipment reviews every now and then ....

[/size]

Tim, you're not going to be happy until I just slam something, are you?

 

[disturbed]

I've had a long read of this thread and other related ones.

Overall, there are a lot of misunderstandings which I believe are due to a conflict of philosophies.

Perhaps the rules need some editing ... especially relating to DIY people showing off their work. A few generic examples (like a dummy thread with pics and some text which implies an ad to follow) might just do the trick in preventing such incidents from occuring.

Fixup AKA Xin Feng is a great man to deal with. I and many of us would appreciate your input here. We can have a truce.

After all we are supposed to be civilised

 

[jude]

Quote:

Originally posted by disturbed ....Perhaps the rules need some editing ... especially relating to DIY people showing off their work. A few generic examples (like a dummy thread with pics and some text which implies an ad to follow) might just do the trick in preventing such incidents from occuring....

DIY people can show off their work. But if someone's selling something with the intent of profit (which, in and of itself, I have zero problem with -- I'm a businessman myself), showing off that something is an advertisement if it's posted by the person who's selling the item. And, again, I have no problem with advertising, but there are designated areas for that. I'll say it again -- it is not my opinion that Fixup was being sneaky in posting the pics in his original thread in question. I define the photos of product he's selling as ad material (my gosh, talk about deja vu), and had to close the thread to be fair to the other Members of Trade who had posts/threads edited/closed/deleted for the exact same reason.

When I have some time, I can come up with some additional rules verbiage; but the rules, even as they are, cover this issue:[size=xx-small] Quote:

"Member of the Trade" includes manufacturers, dealers, distributors, manufacturer's representatives, importers, magazine and e-zine writers and others. "General Forums" are those forums within Head-Fi not specifically designated as areas for commercial advertising by Members of the Trade. No Members of the Trade can use his/her business name, postal address, e-mail address, telephone number or URL as part of his/her moniker. All Members of the Trade must contact the forum administrator at jude@head-fi.org to notify him of an interest in posting before making any posts. If a forum member who was not previously a Member of the Trade becomes a Member of the Trade, he must notify the forum administrator of the change in status. After notification of the "Member of the Trade" status, the forum administrator will then add the appropriate tag (Audio Dealer, Manufacturer, Distributor, etc.) to the appropriate profile(s). A Member of the Trade may not volunteer any information about a specific product that he is selling or making, in response to a general request for information about a type of product or in any other discussion in the General Forums. A Member of the Trade may not post announcements, advertisements, sales information or the like about a product he makes or sells in the General Forums. No advertising by Members of the Trade that is not pre-approved by the Head-Fi administrators is allowed in the member forums. Some sponsors have Branded Sponsor Forums in which they will be allowed to advertise their wares. There will also be designated areas and forums where sponsors and non-sponsors alike will be able to advertise their wares. Head-Fi is most definately NOT anti-trade. In fact, trade members are a welcome and vital part of the Head-Fi community. However, Head-Fi's General Forums are not the place for self promotion and advertising of audio products or services.

[/size]It seems we're going in circles here, and, truth be told, I think I've explained the rules part of this over and over and over in at least a couple of threads recently. Again, I'll consider some additional text for the rules.

But, let's face it, this isn't what all the big ruckus in this thread was about. In this thread, the big ruckus was initiated primarily by someone publically making the suggestion that I locked a thread as a dishonest pawn of a sponsor. And, again, that obviously made me quite angry, and my response reflected my feelings in response to that suggestion. Since the first day of Head-Fi, I can't remember anything anyone posted to me, or about me, making me as angry as those comments. Again, my response reflected that anger -- a response the likes of which I've not posted previously on these forums or at HeadWize that I can recall. You want to criticize my style of moderating? That's fine. You want to debate politics with me from time to time? That's fine, too. You call into question my integrity publically, however, then you're instigating a situation like we now have here. You're free to do it, but if you sling crap like that at me, don't expect me to come up roses. I don't think I've behaved on these forums, since day one, in a manner that justifed those comments, which, yeah, man, were very insulting.

And to get back to the subject of advertising in the General Forums, here's another example of text that'd be considered advertising, as it was posted in the General Forums by a product seller:[size=medium] Quote:

....I can eat the hottest food that you can never even touch. I designed my *PRODUCT NAME*, only because I could no longer let people be ripped off by those stuff that are not even close. As you mentioned, nobody else can do it yet and I could easily sell my *PRODUCT NAME* for $$$. I raised the price from $60 to $80 only once, only try to reduce flooding orders. As you can see, most members here still consider $80 is still a very good deal for such a killer amp. I have the monopoly, but I still keep the price so low. Why? I'm a nice guy, a cowboy. It is that simple....

[/size]That is very easily be construed as advertising copy, and, again, would not be allowed in any of the General Forums.

I've made myself as clear as I can about all of these issues. I've typed volumes explaining things over and over. I'm closing this thread now, as it seems to be going absolutely nowhere fast, and I'm tired of explaining the same things several times over. If you have a compelling reason to re-open it, write me a PM or e-mail about it. You can also start a new thread, but, if it's about these exact same things, don't expect me to participate in it.