Millett Tube Portable amp
Apr 29, 2007 at 6:41 PM Post #241 of 371
marroyo, though I said the microphonics is no issue for me, I have come to realize that while using my triple.fi's (which are really low impedance and super sensitive, I do have some low grade microphonics that happen with light taps (touches really). I also get some shrilly noises when entering interconnects headphones, or the dc power. Additionally I have a buzz whenever the thing is charging. This buzz while charging is apparent (and irritating) regardless of what headphone I use. I think it is a grounding issue of some sort, but I don't know how to fix it.

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller....Bueller?
 
Apr 29, 2007 at 6:52 PM Post #242 of 371
Possibly some refinements, which always seem to happen after version one of anything unless there is never a version 2. Xin, Ray they all look at their design and see where improvements can or should be made do to one reason or another. Tubes though will most always have some noise and that is just the nature of the beast. The shrill sound and buzz when charging though are issues that should and could be cleared up.
 
Apr 29, 2007 at 8:28 PM Post #243 of 371
Quote:

Originally Posted by mrarroyo /img/forum/go_quote.gif
So my question still stands. Is anyone else hearing this?


Yep.......I hear a ringing for more than 2 seconds after plugging in my headphones. I normally turn off an amp before plugging in headphones or a source cable, but I decided to "take one for the team"..............
 
Apr 29, 2007 at 8:42 PM Post #244 of 371
Sounds like maybe a compensation cap is needed for occilation but then the builder would know best.
 
Apr 29, 2007 at 9:14 PM Post #245 of 371
Quote:

Originally Posted by jamato8 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Sounds like maybe a compensation cap is needed for occilation but then the builder would know best.


But if oscillation is the culprit, wouldn't other owners have the same problem? Or could it be induced by variance in tubes?
 
Apr 29, 2007 at 9:43 PM Post #246 of 371
Well it is both channels, from what I understand and the chances that both tubes in these different amps would be equally microphonic would seem to push the odds.
 
Apr 29, 2007 at 10:52 PM Post #247 of 371
Quote:

Originally Posted by sbulack /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I've generally been instructed to turn an amp off and allowing it to discharge prior to unplugging or plugging in any of its inputs or outputs. Is it actually OK to be changing the phones or IC while it is on?

I've got one scheduled to be delivered this Tuesday. When it arrives, I'll try the things that you've described and post what I hear, just to give you more input on the (ab)normalcy of what you're experiencing and to provide more of a basis to assess what is appropriate support for your particular unit.



Thanks. BTW I do turn off my AC powered tube amps when switching sources/cans.

FWIW the reason this came to light is that I was doing a side by side comparison of the Millet with an SR71 and while doing the back and forth plugging and un-plugging the +/-2 sec shrill noise came to light.
 
Apr 29, 2007 at 10:55 PM Post #248 of 371
Quote:

Originally Posted by Large4mat /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Yep.......I hear a ringing for more than 2 seconds after plugging in my headphones. I normally turn off an amp before plugging in headphones or a source cable, but I decided to "take one for the team"..............


Thanks for the information. This IMO is better because it means it is repeatable and not isolated. FWIW I do turn off my AC powered tube amps, however I do not do so on my battery operated units (SR71, Hornet, Tomahawk, LaRocco, Go-Vibe 5, Supermacro LE, etc.)
 
Apr 29, 2007 at 10:57 PM Post #249 of 371
Quote:

Originally Posted by procreate /img/forum/go_quote.gif
But if oscillation is the culprit, wouldn't other owners have the same problem? Or could it be induced by variance in tubes?


So far there are at least 3 owners (Sorrick, Large4mat, and I) reporting this issue.

Edit 1: Now there are 4 with "el monkey".
 
Apr 29, 2007 at 11:16 PM Post #250 of 371
Quote:

Originally Posted by mrarroyo /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Hi, when you insert a source or a headphone into their respective sockets do you hear a shrill high pitch noise out of the headphones for +/-2 sec? Thanks.


Yup! I was unable to hear it with my RS-1s but it was noticeable with my Shure E4s. It was faint but there was a shrill sound like hitting a tuning fork for about 1 to 2 seconds.
 
Apr 29, 2007 at 11:50 PM Post #251 of 371
Quote:

Originally Posted by sorrick /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Additionally I have a buzz whenever the thing is charging. This buzz while charging is apparent (and irritating) regardless of what headphone I use. I think it is a grounding issue of some sort, but I don't know how to fix it.


FWIW, I have mrarroyo's amp on loan at the moment, and I do not hear any buzz while the unit is charging. In fact, with the unit charging and the music on pause and the volume turned all the way up, I can barely even hear any hissing. It would seem that issue is different from the microphonics one hears for a few seconds when plugging sources or headphones in, or when one jars the amp a bit.
 
Apr 29, 2007 at 11:56 PM Post #252 of 371
Quote:

Originally Posted by vorlon1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
FWIW, I have mrarroyo's amp on loan at the moment, and I do not hear any buzz while the unit is charging. In fact, with the unit charging and the music on pause and the volume turned all the way up, I can barely even hear any hissing. It would seem that issue is different from the microphonics one hears for a few seconds when plugging sources or headphones in, or when one jars the amp a bit.


Glad you chimed in. I do not recall hearing the buzz while charging but since I do not have it I did not want to provide wrong information.
 
Apr 30, 2007 at 12:03 AM Post #253 of 371
Dammit...I'm going to to the Tampa meet for sure now. I'm hoping to compare the Hornet, (your) Tomahawk, and the Millet with my UM2's. So I guess all I'm going to bring is my ALO cable and my UM2's, lol.

I just bought a 60GB iPod photo and it's getting sent to Vinnie to be iModded the second it arrives. I won't have it by the meet, but atleast I'll have an idea of what to expect when I get it back. I want SYNERGY. And I want this to be the last purchase for my portable rig for a long, long time.

Dammit....
 
Apr 30, 2007 at 2:44 AM Post #254 of 371
Hey folks -

Some background info on this noise everybody is talking about...

What you are hearing is tube microphonics, not any type of electronic oscillation (even though it no doubt sounds unlike any "microphonic" tube you've heard before).

The submini tubes used have some very small mechanical elements that, when excited, vibrate like a tuning fork. I suspect that the filament (a tiny wire under tension) is the culprit here, but I'm not certain. That's why when you hit the amp, plug in headphones or the input cable, or even flip the power switch, you sometimes hear a high-pitched tone that slowly dies out over a few seconds. (Since the jacks and power switch are mounted on the PCB, they all transmit vibrations to the board, then on to the tubes).

Fellow tube dude Steve Bench noticed the same thing about this type of tube:

"Microphonics with these tubes at very low (phono) levels is odd. Rather than the boink rattle (etc) one expects, the only thing I get is a low level tone of about 3.5kHz when you whack the box. I would not have expected such a high Q mechanical circuit." (http://members.aol.com/sbench/6088pre2.html)

I'm sure there is some variation from one tube to another, but all the amps do this to some extent. Personally I don't find it to be an issue, as I generally don't subject the amp to any vibration. I also hear it when I plug in a cable or flip the power sometimes. It's definitly audible, but is not so loud as to be terribly annoying (at least to me).

I tried many, many submini tube types in an attempt to minimize this noise. The ones used in these amps are the quietest low-filament-power tubes I could find as far as microphonics go. There are some tubes (like the 6418) that sound great, but when you ping them they continue to sing louder, for a very long time (like 10 seconds). The tubes we used also sing if you hit them, but generally their song dies out in a several seconds.

Since the volume control is before the tube stage, the volume control has no effect on this microphonic sound. You will hear it the same even if the volume is turned all the way down.

There's not much that can be done about the singing. It _might_ help to try and do some mechanical isolation of the tubes from the PCB - though I tried a few things and didn't have much sucess. We wound up just sticking the tubes down with foam tape. Maybe some majic dampening goo would help?

If you take the amp apart, be careful that the tips of the tubes don't come into contact with the inside of the extruded metal case when the PCB is slid back inside; if they do, that will make them more likely to get pinged.

There are no drop-in replacements for the tube that we used that I've been able to find (there are some euro types that _might_ work but I've been unable to get any). There are other tube types that can work in the circuit, but require changes in either the filament voltage, bias, and/or plate load resistors. The other options that I tried are either more microphonic, or burn more power, or don't sound very good. That - combined with the fact that there is only one manufacturer of this tube, and that it has a very long lifetime - is why the tubes are soldered in. Sorry, not much tube rolling opportunity here.

I've never noticed any noise on charging, though honestly I didn't intend to have the amp being listened to while charging, so I didn't do anything special to make that mode of operation quiet. I wouldn't be surprised if some power adapter noise gets through, especially when charging a very low battery (initially high charge current), and especially if using very efficient IEMs.

Well, hopefully that clears up some of the questions and concerns. I'll try and check back for more questions later.

Pete
 
Apr 30, 2007 at 2:59 AM Post #255 of 371
I love tube rolling but then I don't have your amp and to be honest if I have something and there is no chance to roll an opamp or tube I do more listening, which is a good thing and why I really bought the amp to begin with. I just love to solder and work on things but it looks like you have done all of the work. It is neat to see a tube used and given new life.
 

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