MIDI/manually triggered sidechain vs audio triggered sidechain

[akmal2789412237682]

are they the same?

 

[FunkyBassMan]

are they the same?

Not sure what you're triggering through the sidechain but gates and compressors are common. I always use audio but I could imagine scenarios where MIDI or manual would be helpful. Bear in mind that MIDI has a fair amount of latency so build that into your timings.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, they're not the "same" as far as the input trigger signal but they could accomplish similar things.

 

[akmal2789412237682]

Not sure what you're triggering through the sidechain but gates and compressors are common. I always use audio but I could imagine scenarios where MIDI or manual would be helpful. Bear in mind that MIDI has a fair amount of latency so build that into your timings.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, they're not the "same" as far as the input trigger signal but they could accomplish similar things.

sidechain is used for avoiding frequency collision with drums
and some daws doesn't support vst3

 

[gregorio]

are they the same?

I’m not sure you realise the complexity of your question. The simple answer is “No” but your question is somewhat ambiguous, it isn’t clear exactly what you mean by MIDI triggered or manually triggered sidechain. I assume you know that “sidechain” refers to a processor, most commonly a compressor, that is activated (triggered) by an audio channel other than the channel it is compressing, for example a kick drum channel activating compression on the bass guitar channel or say the vox activating compression on synth channels. In the latter case, we could apply say a filter to the vox channel feeding the sidechain, thereby altering the response of the compressor on the synth, for example only activating the compressor in response to a certain frequency range in the vox sidechain channel. This could be described as manually triggering the sidechain channel or simply automating a mute on/off with a continuous signal (from say a sine wave generator) acting as the sidechain channel.

As “sidechain” refers to an alternate audio channel activating a processor, then it would seem there’s no such thing as a “MIDI triggered sidechain”, as MIDI is not audio, it’s a data protocol. However, there are certain specific compressor plugins that allow an LFO to act as the sidechain and for that LFO to be controlled by MIDI data, say simple Note On/Off MIDI data to cause the LFO to reset or “continuous controller” (CC) MIDI data, such as Pitchbend or even a custom CC parameter for more granular control. However, we’re talking about pretty specific software here, probably something like the ShaperBox plugin and/or a specific DAW, such as Ableton with MIDI LFO.

So, the difference is that an audio triggered sidechain is about the manipulation of the audio used as the sidechain signal to manipulate the response of say a compressor on another channel, while being MIDI triggered or manually triggered one can manipulate that compressor response by manually writing MIDI data or automation data respectively. However, I’m just presuming this is what you mean by MIDI/Manually triggered sidechain and not some other connotation? If so, then in theory MIDI or Manual triggering could provide more precisely predictable and granular control of the sidechain triggering but it all depends on what you’re after, what you’re compressing (assuming you’re talking about compression rather than say dynamic EQ), what audio you could use as a sidechain instead of MIDI and what specific DAW and plugin you’re talking about. For example, the new ShaperBox plugin allows such varied and granular control of the incoming sidechain audio that in most cases it would be at least equally precise and granular as MIDI triggering.

Lastly, you’re asking about the specific fine control of a specific feature (sidechaining) of specific plugins, used specifically in music recording creation and typically, this level of sidechain manipulation is specific to EDM. However, this is a general Sound Science forum and is mainly geared towards the consumer reproduction of music recordings, while your question is so specific even most professional music engineers would only have a passing knowledge of what you’re asking. In other words, this isn’t the right place to answer your question. I would think an EDM creator/DJ forum or better still a forum dedicated to the actual software, say Ableton if that’s what you’re using or the actual plugin if they have a forum would be better.

G

 

[akmal2789412237682]

I’m not sure you realise the complexity of your question. The simple answer is “No” but your question is somewhat ambiguous, it isn’t clear exactly what you mean by MIDI triggered or manually triggered sidechain. I assume you know that “sidechain” refers to a processor, most commonly a compressor, that is activated (triggered) by an audio channel other than the channel it is compressing, for example a kick drum channel activating compression on the bass guitar channel or say the vox activating compression on synth channels. In the latter case, we could apply say a filter to the vox channel feeding the sidechain, thereby altering the response of the compressor on the synth, for example only activating the compressor in response to a certain frequency range in the vox sidechain channel. This could be described as manually triggering the sidechain channel or simply automating a mute on/off with a continuous signal (from say a sine wave generator) acting as the sidechain channel.

As “sidechain” refers to an alternate audio channel activating a processor, then it would seem there’s no such thing as a “MIDI triggered sidechain”, as MIDI is not audio, it’s a data protocol. However, there are certain specific compressor plugins that allow an LFO to act as the sidechain and for that LFO to be controlled by MIDI data, say simple Note On/Off MIDI data to cause the LFO to reset or “continuous controller” (CC) MIDI data, such as Pitchbend or even a custom CC parameter for more granular control. However, we’re talking about pretty specific software here, probably something like the ShaperBox plugin and/or a specific DAW, such as Ableton with MIDI LFO.

So, the difference is that an audio triggered sidechain is about the manipulation of the audio used as the sidechain signal to manipulate the response of say a compressor on another channel, while being MIDI triggered or manually triggered one can manipulate that compressor response by manually writing MIDI data or automation data respectively. However, I’m just presuming this is what you mean by MIDI/Manually triggered sidechain and not some other connotation? If so, then in theory MIDI or Manual triggering could provide more precisely predictable and granular control of the sidechain triggering but it all depends on what you’re after, what you’re compressing (assuming you’re talking about compression rather than say dynamic EQ), what audio you could use as a sidechain instead of MIDI and what specific DAW and plugin you’re talking about. For example, the new ShaperBox plugin allows such varied and granular control of the incoming sidechain audio that in most cases it would be at least equally precise and granular as MIDI triggering.

Lastly, you’re asking about the specific fine control of a specific feature (sidechaining) of specific plugins, used specifically in music recording creation and typically, this level of sidechain manipulation is specific to EDM. However, this is a general Sound Science forum and is mainly geared towards the consumer reproduction of music recordings, while your question is so specific even most professional music engineers would only have a passing knowledge of what you’re asking. In other words, this isn’t the right place to answer your question. I would think an EDM creator/DJ forum or better still a forum dedicated to the actual software, say Ableton if that’s what you’re using or the actual plugin if they have a forum would be better.

G

i mean the difference on response time, can most people hear it?

 

[gregorio]

i mean the difference on response time, can most people hear it?

The response time of what? Do you mean the attack or release time of the compressor or something else?

G

 

[akmal2789412237682]

The response time of what? Do you mean the attack or release time of the compressor or something else?

G

i mean their rhythm alignment

 

[gregorio]

Why would the rhythm alignment change? The compressor will trigger according to the sidechain signal you send it, if you want it to trigger rhythmically then send it say a sine wave and automate a mute off/on according to whatever rhythm you desire. If you trigger it with MIDI controlling a LFO, then write that MIDI data wherever you want it. You may or may not encounter a delay from using MIDI, depending on what platform and DAW you’re using, along with how you’re routing the MIDI data but most/all employ some form of automatic delay compensation or other method to deal with it. Pro Tools for example time stamps all MIDI data and uses automatic delay compensation, which pretty much guarantees it plays at the correct point in time with no delay. If you do encounter a delay for some reason from your DAW or plugin, then simply shift your MIDI data a little earlier.

G