[mcbiff]

I'm possibly looking to buy this album, but I would like to know how good it sounds first. Not the music, the recording.

 

[Braver]

buy it, the music is absolutely mindblowing. there's no version of it out there with better recording quality anyway. if you start analyzing this kind of music, instead of feeling it, there's something terribly wrong with your system.

 

[mcbiff]

Yeah, I know. I guess I'll just go for it.

 

[Tim D]

I'll have to spin the disc again, but I have to say that I didn't particularly like the recording, and there is nothing wrong with my system. In fact I can totally enjoy the first 3 discs with all their analog tape hiss and crackles and less than idea digital transfer a little more.

But I prefer the original music as well, however would suggest it just because at the very least it ranks much higher than any of the other Loads or reloads of crap they've made lately.

I'll spin the disc again though. I was originally very happy with this disc, only because the Load/Reload crap softens you up for ANY improvement.

There is nothing really wrong with the recording as so much as the balance between orchestra and band, or even the audience for that matter could have been better.

Overall it is worth it, as some tracks really do work well, and some don't really work at all. Plus I like the Morricone in the beginning like their live concerts. Cthulu works awesomely well and is like the first track, and the other tracks shortly after work well, but starts to dwindle.

So yah, its comparatively good to anything besides their first 3.

 

[mcbiff]

Thanks for the info, I'll wait for your results then.

 

[Tim D]

Well I think you should get it if you can get it at a good price since it is double disc. I think I've been spoiled somehow or another. I feel like I KNOW theres a beautiful orchestra in the background, but even with Ety's it sounds a little out of grasp. I think I'm spoiled because I've since hearing it the first time have had a little more appreciation for classical and orchestrated works.

So the dilemma for me is that I like the old-school Metallica a lot, and I also appreciate some classical/orchestrated works, however the combination sometimes is like half-baked old-school Metallica with half-baked orchestra. At other times however everything can meld into something that works well. The balance issue I talk about is the problem for which the symphony can totally be overridden at times...I suppose awhile back I wouldn't have given a **** about this, but perhaps my tastes has changed a bit to the point where I actually want the orchestra to be more emphasized than Metallica LOL. Actually at the very least I would have appreciated a 50-50 balance, but really I think the disc is like 80-20 between Metallica and orchestra. Also the disc seems to have been edited/processed strongly enough to lose "liveness" factor. That is, it seems to lack some raw energy that I would associate with live performance, or recordings of live performances. For example I sometimes need to remind myself it is a live performance and not a studio recording. I feel more raw and live energy in something like Kill 'em all over S&M.

Keep in mind however I appreciate the disc still because it is ambitious...tons better than load quality ****, and provides yet another recording of the old stuff that I like.

Listening to it now...please note I'm nitpicking...I think at the very worst you may still appreciate the disc at the very least for the points I've said before. And at best I think you can really love it for awhile, I sure did. I know that the disc gave me an awesome first impression with the fact that I enjoyed the intro, to Cthulu, to Master immensely...so the beginning just can't do anything but kick ass for me, however it does dwindle afterwards with some highlights here and there. I think Metallica put the serious ammunition right up in front for first impressions.

The recording however just never comes off "clean", and the words you might think of is "busy". For example on the Lies GnR disc that I recently took time to appreciate, the acoustic tracks kill most the stuff on S&M by far orchestra or not.

 

[Braver]

yeah, it starts off a bit too incredibly well. it's all a bit too long for one session as well. but there's a great ending (BATTERY!!) and For Whom The Bell Tolls is terrific, as well as the two new tracks, One rules as always etc etc

as much as I like the older stuff, it doesn't compare to S&M. but also, keep in mind that 99% of my listening nowadays is spent with symphonic rock. to me, the symphony part just adds so much intensity, I just get a kick out of it I guess. raw energy wears off much easier on me. I remember having it in my MDP for months, cause nothing seemed to compare (that is, untill I discoverd the prog/symphonic rock genre).

so I'd imagine to people who don't have *that thing* with symphonic stuff, S&M could be not all that special.

 

[mcbiff]

Thanks a lot for your input, guys. I think I will pick it up after all.

BTW. Tim D, what do you think about Lies? I sometimes feel it almost compares to Appetite, especially tracks 4,5 and 8 are just incredible. Of course then I catch myself likening something to the greatest album ever and realize the error of my ways.

 

[Tim D]

I like those tracks that you mentioned, 5 being my favorite. Also it is recorded WELL, easily good enough to be a track to play if I wanted to hear timbral accuracy and details especially in guitar

Lies is a studio album that pretends to be live...S&M is a live album that pretends to be studio. Thats the only way I can describe it...Lies is absolutely transparent and clean sounding to me. Raw energy comes through this album. S&M comes across the opposite. Also I tried listening to it again and I have to restate...I like the beginning, but things start getting boring for me through the middle that I wasn't able to make it to the end which indeed does pick up again with some heavyhitters. I guess my listening preference is to listen to music in album format instead of track format. Of course perhaps S&M perhaps shouldn't have that type of listening criteria being somewhat like a "best of" live compilation kinda. So like Braver said...this album is LONG and difficult to digest in a sitting...I used to be able to listen to the entire thing in one sitting as a die-hard Metallica fan...but now I feel like I could skip the middle and enjoy the beginnings and ends. Its more of an album that might work in shuffle mode, but I'm more of a start to finish album listener.

So yah I am or was a bigger Metallica fan than I am GnR, but even I would easily admit that Lies which I only recently discovered easily beats S&M. But I am comparing one of GnR's first efforts to Metallicas compilation when they are practically in their 40's...hehehe. But I still like any of Metallica's early albums over something like...say Use your Illusion II even.

haha jk don't want to offend any die-hard GnR fan.

Nah really it isn't that bad double set...in fact maybe if it was more concise and filled with only the good tracks, I would rate it much much higher! And the price should only be slightly higher than a single CD so it isn't that bad. I am just strange when it comes to music listening, and I judge albums as albums...so an album that is shorter but is all good, is still better to me than something really long but has a good deal of filler as well as good stuff. So if I cut out all the crap from S&M, I'd still get at least one full CD worth of good stuff hopefully. So you can either be a glass is half full, or half empty type person.

But yah I'm listening to Lies right now...heh, it doesn't make S&M sound that good as it is compressed in comparison. However it is still filled with enough good stuff to fill up one CD...the downside being that you could take all the less good stuff from this double set and fill up a CD as well.

Also I think I would have totally loved S&M if it sounded MORE Live to me. I mean its weird...I KNOW that Lies is not Live even though they dub in some crowd noise, but it just comes across live and energetic. But I know that S&M is not a studio album and was done live...but comes out overprocessed like it came out of a studio and not an arena/concert hall full of fans.

Oh yah one more criticism...this album shows me that music sometimes can be appreciated for the notes that aren't being played. You know the Simpsons where Lisa goes to a little quirky artsy jazz club and talks about listening to the notes that aren't being played. The problem with this album, compared to old-school metallica versions, is that there is NEVER black space, or silence...Kamen seems to feel like its his duty to add notes or ambience to everything and you just never get a breather. Ok so maybe thrash metal isn't known for "breathers" anyhow, but I could swear that simplicity and blackness is something that is conveyed very well (i.e. fade to black), in old-school material that loses its meaning in Kamen's interpretation to make everything more "complex". KISS (keep it simple stupid) applies.

I still like the album because it shows that there is still some inkling of hope for the old farts (hopefully haha yah right), its nostalgic and plenty of tracks from the albums of when they kicked all ass, and its different if for any reason I wouldn't want to play their old stuff instead.

Also I do wonder how the S&M DVD compares since the liner notes look great! You actually see a big orchestra that often sounds so small on the album. If the DVD sounds better and comes with all the visuals...I think that'd really rock too. Maybe they did a better job multi-channel than they did in a stereo mix too. So yah, it does make me wonder about the DVD version.

 

[mcbiff]

Tim D: I know what you mean about judging albums as albums, I do the same thing. When I settle in with a disc I don't want to have to touch the track skip until it's over.

And what's this I hear about comparing Metallica to UYI 2?

j/k

 

[Deuce_Bigalow]

I think I agree with a lot of what Tim has said. I like the old school metallica best, but with S&M I sometimes feel like there should be more Orchestra on top of the Metallica. I do like the first 5 or so songs on it though. And I really like Battery and Metallica.

 

[deranger]

Hi, All !

I thought that it may be interesting to some of you to learn something about Russian audio market. In our country the average salary is 100-250 $ a month, so most people have to buy pirate CDs, which cost 1.5 - 2 $. Pirates sometimes try to please their purchasers and release CDs some weeks before official release (copies stolen by sound engineers ?).

So in Russia we have 2 versions of this album (maybe more, but I didn't see the others

:

1) released earlier. has poor (but original) cover design. must be a copy stolen from the studio, because: all tracks are lowpassed at 16 khz and have dull sound (for my ears). The peak volume never goes above 70% (while most CDs are normalised to 100 %)I think the pirates used some audiocompressor (xing mp3 ?) to copy the tracks through Internet.

2) released much later. must be a copy of official CD. has a great cover design. BUT: this one has full frequency range and is heavily normalised (I think to about 120%). As far as I know, such overnormalising is common to metal and hard-rock tracks.
But I think that such "digital distortion" spoiles the sound.
I wonder if it's the same with the S&M copy U can buy in your country ???
What's more interesting, the tracks on those CDs are a bit different: 2nd CD version has much LESS crowd noise, some speeches of Metallica members removed (and some added) and some tracks replaced by studio versions (especially the ones which have some static clicks on first CD) !

 

[DarkAngel]

Why buy this "forced" marriage of metal/orchestral which often doesn't work. If you want to see what is really possible in this genre check out Therion "Deggial"

 

[mcbiff]

Ok, so I chickened out and borrowed S&M from a friend. What do I think? It's great! I've discovered many new songs that are good and I think the recording is just fine, at least it sounds good to my ears. I will definitely purchase this soon.

On an unrelated note, I got Ride the Lightning yesterday. What an album! Man, Fade to Black must be one of the best songs ever.

 

[Braver]

couldn't take my word for it could ya?

damn, I wish I had my cd back, friend borrowed it, want to spin it up again!