[goobicii]

Houw much does the metal trace on planar magnetic headphones weight

audeze uses aluminum and hifiman gold?

 

[arnyk]

Houw much does the metal trace on planar magnetic headphones weight

audeze uses aluminum and hifiman gold?

 
 
usually less than the insulating substrate/diaphragm that carry them.

 

[goobicii]

usually less than the insulating substrate/diaphragm that carry them.

do you know whitch force is stronger? The magnetic force like in audeze and hifiman or electrostatic like in Stax,whitch one pulls stronger

 

[arnyk]

do you know whitch force is stronger? The magnetic force like in audeze and hifiman or electrostatic like in Stax,whitch one pulls stronger

 
Making that call requires knowledge of specific technical details that I am not privy to. It is not an apples-to-apples comparison because of all of the inherent differences.

 

[goobicii]

   
Making that call requires knowledge of specific technical details that I am not privy to. It is not an apples-to-apples comparison because of all of the inherent differences.

 
Till from innefidelity said the magnetic force in audeze and hifiman is stronger than stax static,I was just wondering if it is common knowledge that electrostatic force is weaker

 

[arnyk]

   
Till from innefidelity said the magnetic force in audeze and hifiman is stronger than stax static,I was just wondering if it is common knowledge that electrostatic force is weaker

 
Since electrostatic speakers and headphones seem to tend to be less efficient, that might be true.
 
However the problem of insulating high voltages is also part of the equation for the electrostats.

 

[jcx]

practically at macroscopic size we can build higher power density magnetic-electrodynamic motors despite the fact that magnetic force can be viewed as a tiny side effect of special relativity with moving electric charge http://www.researchgate.net/publication/239398431_A_Simplified_Proof_of_the_Relativistic_Nature_Behind_Magnetism (and see the ridiculous low speed of charges in conductors http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/miccur.html )
 
for ES the problem is that electrostatic forces are so huge - high enough electric fields to start giving big force on your membrane quickly overcome intervening dielectric's strength, they tear apart the molecules in between making sparks, discharges that then provide a conductive path and let the separated charges get back together
 
 
http://www.ece.rochester.edu/courses/ECE234/MEMS_ESD.pdf
nice calc of E field energy density for air breakdown limited vs 1 T mag field
looks like the spacer surface discharge is a more constraining limit from the graph on the last page

also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paschen's_law
 
planar electrodynamic headphones however have a really inefficient magnetic structure, lots of geometric losses limiting the B field the flat conductor serpentine path current pushes against - voice coil motors are much more compact for the power

 

[davidsh]

I'd say electrostats are likely to be much more power efficient in reality. In practise not so much

An amp for a stat should be able to deliver around 300 Vrms and 10 mA to be able to drive most stats to some 105-110 dB.
To drive most planars you'd want something in the ballpark of 5 volts and 150 mA.

 

[jcx]

efficiency is tricky for ES - being a largely reactive load there is considerable "power flow" but not that much loss in the transducer itself
 
Class A ES amps are a very poor deal for efficiency when you bias to supply enough current to charge/discharge the ES capacitance at full V swing, 20 kHz - but the power loss is almost all in the amp - not the ES headphone's drivers
 
if a ES amp could recover the discharge current with low loss then the electrical efficiency is likely higher than planar electrodynamics that lose power irretrievably in heating the resistance of the current carrying metal trace
 
bidirectional switched mode amplifiers can do this - regenerative braking in electric cars a large scale example of recovering kinetic energy, returning it to the electrical supply (battery or supercaps) while slowing the car to improve efficiency in "cyclic" start-stop driving