[cosmopragma]

Quote:

What is the return policy? By German law there is a 30-day return policy on all products. However, there is an administration fee, and the customer is responsible for return shipping.

What?
This is a bluff and definitely against german law.Such attempts to break the law are not uncommon but considered to be a sign to avoid the seller.
For items costing more than 40 Euros a mail order service has to refund the whole amount(unless it is a customized item) and has even to cover the costs for (innergerman) return shipment, period.
I just looked and what I found is different.
Quote:

return-policy All products also come with 30-days return-policy. Refund will be complete apart from shipping costs. If an amplifier is returned in less then perfect condition then you will also be charged with costs for repair.

Even this is a bit shady but not as clearly illegal as the first quote.

 

[jherbert]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmopragma /img/forum/go_quote.gif What? This is a bluff and definitely against german law.Such attempts to break the law are not uncommon but considered to be a sign to avoid the seller. For items costing more than 40 Euros a mail order service has to refund the whole amount(unless it is a customized item) and has even to cover the costs for (innergerman) return shipment, period. I just looked and what I found is different. Even this is a bit shady but not as clearly illegal as the first quote.

I do not want to argue, but German (or EC) consumer protection does not apply to US customers. The same is true vice versa, if you care to have a look at money back guaranties from American companies shipping to Europe.

Also, German law does provide for a fee in case the item sent back is not in as new condition. Plus, as mentioned, shipping charges for sending the item back may not be charged inside Germany. This does not apply to shipments to the US.

If I may add: Jan has dealers in the states. If anybody wants local service, he should buy at a local source.

 

[cosmopragma]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jherbert /img/forum/go_quote.gif I do not want to argue, but German (or EC) consumer protection does not apply to US customers. The same is true vice versa, if you care to have a look at money back guaranties from American companies shipping to Europe. Also, German law does provide for a fee in case the item sent back is not in as new condition. Plus, as mentioned, shipping charges for sending the item back may not be charged inside Germany. This does not apply to shipments to the US. If I may add: Jan has dealers in the states. If anybody wants local service, he should buy at a local source.

Jaska is located in Finland, and last time I looked Finland was part of the EU.

 

[greenhorn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif FWIW, all Meier amps pass a small amount of signal if they are off

My Prehead didn't. It was dead silent when I turned the volume button all the way down.

 

[Zerachiel]

Woah, this thread is quickly becoming alot of he said he said argument especially since the OP's issues were resolved. I think the easiest way to resolve this is perhaps asking Jan to clarify the issue here or at his website.

 

[Skylab]

I did just that, and Jan said he would look at it. We'll see what happens. I cannot stress enough that Jan has always been one of the very best in our business in terms of customer support from my experience - so I'm certain this will get resolved in a positive way.

 

[giulio]

In reply to Jaska,

10 euros IS the shipping cost. This is the same cost that Jan told me and it coincides with postage on the packet.

Giulio

 

[Jaska]

Quote:

Originally Posted by giulio /img/forum/go_quote.gif In reply to Jaska, 10 euros IS the shipping cost. This is the same cost that Jan told me and it coincides with postage on the packet.

So, what exactly does this mean in your case? Will you have 10 euros deducted from your "complete refund" after you pay to ship the amp back?

 

[Skylab]

Interesting! So maybe what Jan is saying is that the shipping cost TO YOU IN THE FIRST PLACE, which is INCLUDED in the price you paid, is non-refundable. That would actually make perfect sense.

 

[giulio]

Of course! I have always understood it that way. You pay for the cost of having it shipped to you (deduction) and shipping it back. Perfectly fair I would say.

Giulio

 

[Jaska]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif Interesting! So maybe what Jan is saying is that the shipping cost TO YOU IN THE FIRST PLACE, which is INCLUDED in the price you paid, is non-refundable. That would actually make perfect sense.

It is illegal, at least as far as it concerns Finns making purchases over the Internet. From Suomen Laki:

Etämyyntisopimus: Etämyyntisopimuksen peruuttaminen ja suorituksen palautus

Pitääkö suoritus palauttaa, jos peruutan etämyyntisopimuksen?

Jos etämyyntisopimus kuluttajan toimesta peruutetaan, on tavara tai muu suoritus palautettava myyjälle kohtuullisen ajan kuluessa peruuttamisesta. Kuluttajalla on siis velvollisuus palauttaa tavara, mutta myyjän on hyvitettävä palautuskulut.

Sen jälkeen myyjän on viivytyksettä ja viimeistään 30 päivän kuluttua tavaran tai suorituksen takaisin saatuaan palautettava, mitä hinnasta on maksettu, sekä korvattava kuluttajalle tavanomaisesta postitse palauttamisesta aiheutuneet kulut. Jos palautettavaa tavaraa tai suoritusta ei ole, 30 päivän aika lasketaan peruuttamisilmoituksen saamisesta. Viivästyneenä palautetulle rahamäärälle kuluttaja voi vaatia korkolain mukaista viivästyskorkoa.

The law gives me the right to return merchandise within 14 days of receiving goods ordered online, and obliges the seller to refund all associated shipping costs.

 

[Skylab]

Interesting. While that may be, it is actually very common practice in the USA - in fact, I would guess that it would be the most common scenario when returning a product for a refund.

You might consider that Jan may not be familiar with Finnish law

 

[Jaska]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif You might consider that Jan may not be familiar with Finnish law

If you read the recent posts in this very thread, it would seem that the practice is not even in full compliance with German law.

 

[Jaska]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif Iit is actually very common practice in the USA - in fact, I would guess that it would be the most common scenario when returning a product for a refund.

For what it's worth, Amazon.com, based in the USA, is the world's largest e-tailer. I can attest to their extremely high level of customer service. I have spent thousands of dollars there over the years, and have not had a single negative experience. On the very rare occasions that I've had to return something to them, they have reimbursed me in full, and even paid for return shipping when something has been their fault (e.g. wrong item shipped, defective product).

So, using Amazon.com as the "most common scenario when returning a product for a refund," they almost certainly would have reimbursed me in full for the Arietta (if they sold them), and paid for the return shipping as well since I found the item faulty.

To make this more relevant to the Head-Fi business environment, Meier-Audio's ill-defined returns policy is, in practice, markedly less customer friendly than the policies of other major boutique vendors--who happen to be based in the USA.

 

[smuh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaska /img/forum/go_quote.gif For what it's worth, Amazon.com, based in the USA, is the world's largest e-tailer. I can attest to their extremely high level of customer service. I have spent thousands of dollars there over the years, and have not had a single negative experience. On the very rare occasions that I've had to return something to them, they have reimbursed me in full, and even paid for return shipping when something has been their fault (e.g. wrong item shipped, defective product). So, using Amazon.com as the "most common scenario when returning a product for a refund," they almost certainly would have reimbursed me in full for the Arietta (if they sold them), and paid for the return shipping as well since I found the item faulty. To make this more relevant to the Head-Fi business environment, Meier-Audio's ill-defined returns policy is, in practice, markedly less customer friendly than the policies of other major boutique vendors--who happen to be based in the USA.

And comparing Meier Audio with Amazon.com makes perfectly sense... and yes, I am being ironic.

OTOH, Meier Audio is a small business, so customer satisfaction matters a lot so he should make sure everybody is happy.

I ordered a Porta Corda once and returned it and payed the 10 Euros, I did not care if I had to or not because the products I received from Jan were always in perfect condition, Jan was very helpful explaining what I need and what I can expect from the product, shipping was fast and so on, so I had no problem paying the 10 Euros.. in fact, I spent so much money since I am reading and posting on here...