[davemal]

I dont think that I would have 50 hours but probably 20 ? I left them on overnight plus various periods plugged in to my laptop at work - of course I have given them more than normal usage

The tag on the phones says 8-10 hrs.

I got some different ear plugs and hacked them up and am getting good results. The sony hybrids aren't available locally so that will be an ebay job to go down that path..

I will sit tight for a little longer yet and wait for some more magic

cheers

 

[Andrew H]

Quote:

Originally Posted by davemal /img/forum/go_quote.gif I dont think that I would have 50 hours but probably 20 ? I left them on overnight plus various periods plugged in to my laptop at work - of course I have given them more than normal usage The tag on the phones says 8-10 hrs.

Officially we suggest 8-10 hours, because we think it's enough to make some difference, while not being too much to ask of most users (since it can be done conveniently over a single night).

If we were to suggest 50 hours (which I personally think should be fairly adequate, although it's certainly open to debate), then most users may feel too discouraged about such a long requirement, and not do it at all.

But we also expect most enthusiasts (such as people here) will be more likely to form their own idea of what makes sense. And it's been a somewhat moving target. A couple years ago, 100+ hours seemed pretty extreme, but is now getting more common/accepted. Yet there are plenty on the other end of the spectrum who are not convinced that burn-in really does anything (to the earphone anyway). I think this has more to do with the particular model in question -- some may change significantly, while others may not.

 

[yipcanjo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew H /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yet there are plenty on the other end of the spectrum who are not convinced that burn-in really does anything (to the earphone anyway). I think this has more to do with the particular model in question -- some may change significantly, while others may not.

Andrew --

As an employee of a well-respected IEM manufacturer, it seems that you are in a position to put this "burn-in" or "not burn-in" debate to rest. I mean, if "burn-in" actually works (and I think it's quite likely that it does), then shouldn't it be able to be verified and documented? Is there an accurate way to discern the output/quality of an IEM, and thus track how it changes over time? Test it out-of-the-box, document the results, burn it in for 50 hours, test again, and compare? Has someone done this already where we can view the results??

Just curious

Thanks,

Yip

 

[davemal]

Thanks for your comments Andrew, quite interesting...

Do you have any suggestions on fit with the std tips ? I have tried all of them with no success - well no bass, just a tinny sound.. Some homemade foam tips has solved this for now but I can't help thinking that I am doing something wrong..

cheers

 

[mark2410]

sony hybrids maybe? your clearly not getting a seal.

 

[EDP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by yipcanjo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Andrew -- As an employee of a well-respected IEM manufacturer, it seems that you are in a position to put this "burn-in" or "not burn-in" debate to rest. I mean, if "burn-in" actually works (and I think it's quite likely that it does), then shouldn't it be able to be verified and documented? Is there an accurate way to discern the output/quality of an IEM, and thus track how it changes over time? Test it out-of-the-box, document the results, burn it in for 50 hours, test again, and compare? Has someone done this already where we can view the results?? Just curious Thanks, Yip

It is possible to test and I guess that it has been tested: why would the manfacturer put a label on it's headphones to let them burn in if they wouldn't know if it's actually needed? Reading Andrew's post, I conclude that he knows that 50 hours will do enough for the Maximo iMetal iM-590, but that maybe (not tested) 100 hours will make them sound even more precise. Maybe the difference between 50 and 100 hours is not noticable by humans, but still measurable.

If you really want to know, then contact a company like HeadRoom, they measure sound quality of headphones. I guess they won't bother testing these Maximos, but for upcoming models like the Maximo iMetal iM-790 they might consider testing after what burn in time the headphones stop improving in sound quality. I guess that the test set up will be as always, but now they measure every hour. Then they'd compare what the differences are between hours. When the differences are small enough, the right burn in time is found.

 

[Andrew H]

Quote:

Originally Posted by yipcanjo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Andrew -- if "burn-in" actually works (and I think it's quite likely that it does), then shouldn't it be able to be verified and documented? Is there an accurate way to discern the output/quality of an IEM, and thus track how it changes over time? Test it out-of-the-box, document the results, burn it in for 50 hours, test again, and compare? Has someone done this already where we can view the results??

We have not really objectively tested on any "before and after" basis. TBH, we probably spend more time on subjective listening than anything. Better to listen first, and listen some more. Then finally take a look at the measurements, to confirm what you think you're hearing. Better to trust the ears ultimately, than to let the measurements drive the design, or give them too much influence.

Interesting idea though. Will see what can be arranged.

 

[Andrew H]

Quote:

Originally Posted by davemal /img/forum/go_quote.gif Do you have any suggestions on fit with the std tips ? I have tried all of them with no success - well no bass, just a tinny sound.. Some homemade foam tips has solved this for now but I can't help thinking that I am doing something wrong..

Are any of the stock tips at least close? Can you at least get a seal with a little help (while holding the earphones in, or pushing up your ears from the bottom, or ?)? And are there other popular earphones that you've had good luck with (and if so, using which eartips)?

 

[Andrew H]

Quote:

Originally Posted by EDP /img/forum/go_quote.gif It is possible to test and I guess that it has been tested: why would the manfacturer put a label on it's headphones to let them burn in if they wouldn't know if it's actually needed?

It's really been based on our own subjective observation (as well as others on Head-Fi), more than objective testing.

Quote:

Reading Andrew's post, I conclude that he knows that 50 hours will do enough for the Maximo iMetal iM-590, but that maybe (not tested) 100 hours will make them sound even more precise. Maybe the difference between 50 and 100 hours is not noticable by humans, but still measurable.

Again, more my own personal observation. It's kind of a reverse parabola. The first 10 hours will probably give at least 70% of any burn-in improvement, by 50 hours you'll be at 90%, then to get to 100% you need to use them forever. Something like that.
Quote:

If you really want to know, then contact a company like HeadRoom, they measure sound quality of headphones. I guess they won't bother testing these Maximos,

Actually they do have their tests for iM-590 and iP-HS5 (the headset version) on there. Or they recently took them down?

 

[cambys]

I recently got the Maximo IM-590s, but I have a question, the 3.5mm plug has a clear strain relief that is at an angle on mine, yet the extension cord has a straight strain relief, I looked at pictures online but couldn't tell if this is by design or is mine defective?

 

[EDP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew H /img/forum/go_quote.gif Actually they do have their tests for iM-590 and iP-HS5 (the headset version) on there. Or they recently took them down?

Yes, their tests were never offline for the iM-590. I only meant that they won't bother doing such extensive measurements when a newer model is about to be released (maybe you've already sent them the new iM-790

)

Andrew, I guess you know already (however it's always subjective, as you say):
Is it worth waiting for the iM-790?

I'd like to buy the iM-590, but if the iM-790 will give me a lot more sound for the little extra money, I'd buy those. I know the iM-790 has some kind of twisting function that alters the bass output, but what else does it offer over the iM-590? Could you post your own taste differences between the iM-590 an 790, please?

 

[silverlightning_1]

when i opened my maximo im-590, i tried all the maximo eartips for abt 10 minutes to see which were the best.
the largest ones gave the best bass. so i stuck to the largest eartips. these eartips are very comfortable. no doubt. but i have to struggle each time to to put them in.
not that they are uncomfortable. but its difficult to get the best isolation and bass out of these tips. i have to adjust the position of these eartips for some time before i can listen to my music. i try to push them deeper inside. sometimes i remove them out and put them in again. it takes a little time to before i feel that they have gone inside properly.

now i have replaced these with the eartips of my sony ericsson hpm 70.(they fact that those eartips are grey helps a lot) lets see how it works out
anyone else here used those hpm-70 tips??
or compared them with the sony hybrid tips??

 

[Andrew H]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cambys /img/forum/go_quote.gif I recently got the Maximo IM-590s, but I have a question, the 3.5mm plug has a clear strain relief that is at an angle on mine, yet the extension cord has a straight strain relief, I looked at pictures online but couldn't tell if this is by design or is mine defective?

Yes, the plug for the earphones has a slight "J", while straight on the extension cable.

 

[Andrew H]

Quote:

Originally Posted by EDP /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, their tests were never offline for the iM-590. I only meant that they won't bother doing such extensive measurements when a newer model is about to be released (maybe you've already sent them the new iM-790 )

They did get to demo our early sample briefly at CES, but it likely will be a couple months before production units are available to send out for test or review.

Quote:

I know the iM-790 has some kind of twisting function that alters the bass output, but what else does it offer over the iM-590? Could you post your own taste differences between the iM-590 an 790, please?

Main difference is the iM-790 has a new, upgraded driver which is a little smoother and cleaner. The iM-590 has slightly more forward (Grado-esque) upper-mids.

 

[davemal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew H /img/forum/go_quote.gif Are any of the stock tips at least close? Can you at least get a seal with a little help (while holding the earphones in, or pushing up your ears from the bottom, or ?)? And are there other popular earphones that you've had good luck with (and if so, using which eartips)?

Andrew,

I have just tried again (with significantly more burn in) and the Large are still clearly the most comfortable and best sounding. The XL is next best and the 2 small sizes aren't in the game.

If I adjust the EQ to boost the bass the low end is similar my DIY foams with flat EQ. Thats my best result.

I like the silicone for ease of use and comfort but the foams sound better and I suspect that they isolate better (more testing to come).

I will see how things progress and will likely try the sony tips down the track as well..

btw - thanks for coming on here and helping out. Much appreciated, especially your supportive approach.

cheers