[Clmntbnr]

Hi,
 
Me and my situation :

First, I'll quickly present myself. I'm a graduate student at Sound Engineering Division at the National Conservatory of Music of Paris, called FSMS (Formation Supérieure aux Métiers du Son). As a master thesis, I went for circumaural headphones optimisation for better dynamic auralisation system implementation. I was lucky enough to find a great supervisor, former research director north america at a huge headphones manufacturer and currently supervising new interesting binaural projects for the same company. Before that, I got many rejections. Now my work is in progress and going great.
 
Why I'm posting this :
 
The work is basically trying to identify, if there are some, design features in headphones that can help in implementing dynamic binaural synthesis. Because headphones (and sound technology in general) cannot be assessed only throught measurements (IMHO), I am adopting different approaches (six) combining empirical and theoric, objective and subjective studies/testing of headphones. The idea in the end is to synthesise the results to derive guidelines on how manufacturer should go if they want to make headphones performing well with binaural technologies.
 
So I'm posting this because three of the six approaches could greatly benefit from this community :
 
First approach :
 
The first one is the "theoric subjective" approach : What I want to do here is to synthesize reviews and make an assessment of how people perceive their headphones performance from a bigger sample that I could get IRL. The challenges and limitations of this approach here are obvious, but again this approach is only going to be here to assert or contradict controlled scientific measurements made at the headphones manufacturer's R&D center.
What I'm going to do is to send a detailed questionnaire to what I consider "fit subjects" for my work, i.e people owning more than one pair of headphones that I'm going to test. The idea here is to reduce the "possession bias", asking "how does A compares to B" instead of "how does A sound ?" (... "it sounds great ! those are my headphones I love them." ). Anyone who would accept to answer my questionnaire would probably be quoted at some point in my work (if they accept obviously).  
 
So here are my questions : 
Do any of you know people (on this forum or not) owning multiple mid to high end headphones ? If yes, mail adresses/psedos/links would be greatly appreciated.
Do any of you have links to big comparative headphones reviews (written or recorded) ? (Like this one, though it's way bigger than what I need http://www.head-fi.org/t/634201/battle-of-the-flagships-58-headphones-compared)
I'm not sure wether I'm allowed to post that or not (and I'll edit if not), Do any of you know other sites with headphones reviews and/or headphones enthusiast community ? (Already know headfonia, innerfidelity, audiofanzine)
 
Second and third approaches : 
 
The second approach that could benefit from Head-Fi is the "empiric subjective and objective" approach : What I want to do here is to make measurements in a controlled environment and to make perceptive tests. For this, I need headphones.
The supervisor is willing to buy several headphones, but not many, as I'm focusing on mid to high end headphones (think $500+). Making a study of headphones with a relatively low sample can greatly reduce the validity of my work. I've thought about it and haven't really found a solution to this. How can I get a to have, temporarily in my possession, mid to high end headphones ? I wouldn't, ever, send my Elear to a unknown student just for the sake of helping him in his master thesis, so I don't really know.
 
So here are my questions : 
Do you have any ideas ? I would need to keep the headphones for a week, and could provide a significant caution. If any of you live in Paris, maybe that can help I don't know.
I thought about making a deal with a headphone store (caution + remuneration), or buying headphones and then returning them, or entering loaner programs, asking the manufacturer to back me up on the caution... Any advices, ideas are welcome.
 
The last one is even trickier :
I want to analyse the internal of headphones to be able to identify characteristics not present on the data sheet (ie transducteur placement, angulation relative to median plane, form, distance from ear canal, cavity design...). I'll probably need to dismantle them. ("can I borrow your pricey headphones and take them appart ?")
I'm kind of more sceptic about how I can manage to do that, other than finding someone who likes to buy pricey headphones to dismantle them, and that would accept that I come to study them...
The thing is I'm sure I can access most internal headphone parts without damaging them, like most moders do.
The best case scenario would be to find people owning borken headphones. They would defenitely be more willing to lend them.
 
So here is my questions : any idea on how to manage to do this internal parts analysis ?  
Do you know any way I could find/buy broken mid to hi-end headphones/parts ?
Do you know people/psedo owning broken headphones ? 
 
End words, TLDR :
 
I need ideas on
how to find non biases headphones reviews,
how to temporarily get headphones to measure them,
how to analyse the internal parts of those headphones or to find broken/dismantled headphones
 
And If any of you know interesting papers on the influence of internal headphones design on binaural implementation, I'm really interested !  
 
Anyhow, sorry for that huge post, thanks for all, and happy listening !
 

Clément.

 

 

[Malfunkt]

Hi, I've written a bit on what I feel are the best in reproduction of binaural audio headphones in my estimation.
 
I would recommend trying to get you hands on HD800, HD700 and HD600. Objective O2 amp and ODAC for amp/dac
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/832713/headphone-comparison-sennheiser-hd700-denon-ah-d2000-sony-mdr-7520-audeze-lcd-2-rev-1-and-a-pair-of-logitech-ue6000s
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/729362/the-naturespace-binaural-field-recordings-appreciation-thread-for-auralnauts
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/765538/bandwidth-isolation-tests-with-lcd2-hd650-mdr7550-hd25-comparisons-and-review
 
 
I'm all the way in Canada, but I have a big interest in binaural sound. 

 

[Clmntbnr]

Thanks for your reply ! 
 
Yes, HD700 and LCD2 are defenitely on my "potential list", as they have internal design characteristics that are relevant to my work. 
Would you agree if I sent you a questionnaire about those two headphones if I end up choosing them ? 
 
Anyone else with ideas/links/psedos ? 

 

[Malfunkt]

  Thanks for your reply ! 
 
Yes, HD700 and LCD2 are defenitely on my "potential list", as they have internal design characteristics that are relevant to my work. 
Would you agree if I sent you a questionnaire about those two headphones if I end up choosing them ? 
 
Anyone else with ideas/links/psedos ? 

Hi @Clmntbnr, sure I'd be able to fill out the questionnaire. I'd be glad to correspond more. This area of technology I feel is going to expand rapidly with the onset of Augmented Reality and Virtual Reality devices. Simulating room spaces, dynamic reverb convolution, as well as virtualizing the affect of your own audio into a virtual audio environment are going to require some significant processing power and understanding. 

 

[megabigeye]

End words, TLDR :

I need ideas on
how to find non biases headphones reviews,
how to temporarily get headphones to measure them,
how to analyse the internal parts of those headphones or to find broken/dismantled headphones

And If any of you know interesting papers on the influence of internal headphones design on binaural implementation, I'm really interested !

Anyhow, sorry for that huge post, thanks for all, and happy listening !


Clément.

Hi Clément,
Sounds like an interesting project, though I'm not going to pretend to understand everything you're trying to accomplish. Sounds to me like you're studying both how headphones represent and how listeners perceive (soundstage/imaging in) binaural recordings? Anyway, like I said, I'm not going to pretend to have any real information there (and my headphone collection is probably too small to be of any real use to you), I'm just curious about your research and goals.

As regards finding unbiased reviews: Ha! Good luck! I'm doubtful that any such thing can even exist. I can't quite imagine how one would use (let alone review) a headphone without introducing unconscious biases. My first thought is that you reach out to some of the more prolific reviewers, ones that you trust, and see if they can agree on headphones that might fit into your research. I figure the more headphones a person has experience with, the closer they'll be to understanding a baseline of what a headphone can or "should" sound like. From there maybe you can start to cast a wider net.
A further problem that I foresee is that the language surrounding headphones and audiophilia could generously be described as inaccurate. People use a lot of language and jargon that are so ill-defined as to be very nearly meaningless; it seems like no two people mean the same thing when they use a particular piece of jargon. For instance, I've seen "warm" used to describe any number of things, from low bass extension, mid-bass emphasis, forward mids, attenuated treble, lacking resolution, a general "warm fuzzy" feeling, etc. The language here is highly metaphorical and is therefore entirely open to interpretation. So you have language that's open to interpretation that's describing an experience that is, by it's very nature, open to interpretation. It's like logarithmic inaccuracy.
That isn't even getting into the matter of people just parroting the things that they've heard and read, and not formulating their own opinions.
I wonder if you could get around both of those obstacles by designing a questionnaire/survey asking people to rate certain predefined aspects of a headphone's sound. E.G., "On a scale of 1 - 5, rate Headphone X's instrument separation." This way you can define for yourself the aspects that you want people to focus on and you can avoid problematic language. Even so, you're still going to run into people (probably a lot of them) that don't know how to differentiate between, say, instrument separation and imaging or sub-, mid- and upper-bass.

As to getting lots of headphones temporarily, The Cable Company has a lending library of headphones that may be of interest to you. I've never used it and don't know much about it other than the fact that it exists. Don't know if they'll ship to Europe, where they're located, etc. If they're lending out a lot of headphones, they may even have a collection of broken headphones that you could potentially get your hands on.
You might also try contacting manufacturers directly. I know that they send out review samples, maybe they'd be willing to send out a "desk reference" research sample as well (like academic book publishers send professors free desk reference copies of their books).

Anyway, just some ideas. Good luck with your project! It sounds interesting!

PS, if you're wanting lots of responses to your post you should post with more standard English. Academic language is intimidating and a turn off for a lot of people. Phrases like "circumaural headphones optimisation for better dynamic auralisation system implementation" and "implementing dynamic binaural synthesis" are going to send a lot of people straight for the door. In fact, I'm not going to pretend to know what the heck those mean.

 

[marka250]

LCD2C is the way you go!

 

[MattFH]

For headphones to dismantle them, or just to be able to listen to them cheaply: consider ebay, or amazon used articles, in some cases. Broken equipment is sold on ebay regularly. Of course you'd have to take their damage into account, and if they still work, that they might sound different from a new one with much less hours into it.

As regards finding unbiased reviews: Ha! Good luck! I'm doubtful that any such thing can even exist. I can't quite imagine how one would use (let alone review) a headphone without introducing unconscious biases.

That is thought way too simplistically. (It's the same with all insincere talk of "bias" these days, or previously the insincere "relativism" on the internet which of course spun around into arbitrary absolutism, which is very similar to this.) This comes from people only comparing headphones to each other and thinking in terms of headphones, with all the baggage of history of talking about them. When the reference still has to be reality itself, or even good speakers (which have some advantages in reproduction). One can either deliberately make it more complicated (even by oversimplifying and normalizing a problem), or do the best possible, perhaps even necessary, and go down to basics, clear descriptions and direct tests. And reference frames can be translateable, if they are not too embellished.
Anyhoots, that's "my opinion"...

 

[megabigeye]

For headphones to dismantle them, or just to be able to listen to them cheaply: consider ebay, or amazon used articles, in some cases. Broken equipment is sold on ebay regularly. Of course you'd have to take their damage into account, and if they still work, that they might sound different from a new one with much less hours into it.




That is thought way too simplistically. (It's the same with all insincere talk of "bias" these days, or previously the insincere "relativism" on the internet which of course spun around into arbitrary absolutism, which is very similar to this.) This comes from people only comparing headphones to each other and thinking in terms of headphones, with all the baggage of history of talking about them. When the reference still has to be reality itself, or even good speakers (which have some advantages in reproduction). One can either deliberately make it more complicated (even by oversimplifying and normalizing a problem), or do the best possible, perhaps even necessary, and go down to basics, clear descriptions and direct tests. And reference frames can be translateable, if they are not too embellished.
Anyhoots, that's "my opinion"...

I'm not following your reasoning. How is my thought simplistic? I honestly don't understand how a person can experience a thing without it becoming-- at least on some level-- a personal experience, thus subjective and biased?
And "the reference has to be reality itself?" I don't understand what that means. What is referencing which reality?

I'm honestly not trying to provoke you, and I'm not saying I'm not wrong, I just don't understand your argument.

 

[Clmntbnr]

Hi megabigeye,

Thank you for your answer !
I did finish my research several years ago haha.
I ended up doing measurements on headphones that my thesis supervisor's company had in their lab, it was really interesting !
As for the reviews, it wasn't possible to do serious research from review posts and get results that I could put into a paper, so I didn't dwell on that and went for explaining everything around spatialisation techs and headphones' design impact on sound.
I would gladly send you my work but it's in french.

Anyway thanks for the answers.

 

[megabigeye]

Oh, wow! I'm a little embarrassed! I didn't realize your post was from more than two years ago! There must've been some glitch in Head-Fi's new posts algorithm that made your post show up in my feed. I swear I didn't go looking for it! I often sometimes why people seemingly dig up long dead threads and now I understand.

I'm glad your research was successful, though I'm not sure I would understand much more of it in English than in French. Have you thought about sharing and discussing any of your findings in the Sound Science forum?