Master Clock Talk
Oct 23, 2023 at 9:42 PM Post #2,911 of 3,361
K I will no longer converse He will just start replying to his own thread though.
Anybody hear anything on the new Mutec Nano? I can’t even get a US retailer to return an email. I realize it’s a Pro Audio company first but if anybody knows a consumer retailer that would be great.
 
Oct 23, 2023 at 9:44 PM Post #2,912 of 3,361
I don’t pretend that my R2R dac is performing some sort of magic and making the audio “soooo much better”
I understand what it’s doing and why it does it.
The difference is for digital audio we all need a DAC. If I want it to sound different I can go find a different DAC.
But it’s a needed piece of equipment.
An external clock isn’t. You’re paying $1000s of dollars and being mislead by marketing thinking you’re improving your signal. You’re not.
Even with added IMD and noise brought by the clock (not that.I agree that the clock does, just imagine that you're right on that), overall noise and IMD level for DS dac is way lower that your sweat garbage. Why don't you sell your R26 and buy topping D10s to save a thousand dollar rather than being swindled by a marketing crap from R2R manufacturer?
 
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Oct 23, 2023 at 10:36 PM Post #2,913 of 3,361
Even with added IMD and noise brought by the clock (not that.I agree that the clock does, just imagine that you're right on that), overall noise and IMD level for DS dac is way lower that your sweat garbage. Why don't you sell your R26 and buy topping D10s to save a thousand dollar rather than being swindled by a marketing crap from R2R manufacturer?
Thought I answered that!
Actually the R26 is on the market now.
Moving to the A26 because the 1bit Dsd dac on the R26 is garbage.
 
Oct 23, 2023 at 10:55 PM Post #2,914 of 3,361
For the complete avoidance of doubt, I do not believe the Gustard K-2 to be a defective design. Indeed, it's an excellent clock synth using as it does an internal clock combined with, if connected, an external clock to further 'discipline' it. It's clear that Gustard took a long time developing it and it is used in all three of their top platforms: X26 Pro, R26 and A26.

To my ears, it sounds extremely detailed with low noise floor, good timbre and a very nicely developed soundstage. A tungsten cube on each of mine has elicited further performance improvements. The proof is always in the listening and the sound I am achieving is the best I have yet heard.
 
Oct 24, 2023 at 1:59 AM Post #2,916 of 3,361
man either you are stupid or you playing being stupid or you like trolling around.
Asked for some reliable evidence to support your (false) claims and info, you first posted marketing BS and since then nothing but more false info and insults like this one.
I already explained to you few post ago what jitter means.
You did indeed, wrongly! You keep going on about phase noise and jitter, when in fact they are the same thing, which has been explained to you by several different people and references provided to reliable evidence.
A place for a clock is where synchronous audio data stream is created. In terms of traditional audio interfaces like S/PDIF or I2S it is at the source, not DAC.
Great, so you’ve falsely claimed I don’t know/understand what a PLL is, but here you’re demonstrating that you don’t, so thanks for that! You don’t even know where the PLL is, lol.
No more jitter, just more noise, remember what I am saying.
Why would anyone want to remember what you are saying when it’s wrong? Jitter is timing deviations/inaccuracies in a periodic signal (such as a digital data stream, inc. Digital audio). Up to the point of conversion there is always jitter, it’s just a question of how much. After conversion there can be no jitter because the analogue output signal is not periodic, it’s continuous. So all we’re left with after conversion is the artefacts caused by jitter, which is more noise AND more distortion spurs, as the objective evidence demonstrates!
Regarding measurements, there is always factor of error, adding extra ground interference, it happens not first time.
So you’re saying this “extra ground interference” is only being measured when measuring the output with an external clock?
A quality clock do not generate such anomalies.
All clocks generate such anomalies, there’s no such thing as a perfect clock/clock signal. The only question is the amount/level of these anomalies (noise/distortion) after conversion.
First, please post a link to prove the source if you claiming something.
Oh the irony. Links have already been posted to proven sources but when you’ve been asked for reliable evidence to support your claims your only response has been marketing and insults!
Noise floor below -140 db is not even audible, so you can even hear the harmonics at -140db.
Exactly! In fact, noise/distortion (or anything else) at -140dB can’t even be reproduced, so obviously there can be no question audibility. Yet you’ve (falsely) claimed you can hear a difference, so now you’re even arguing against yourself! Now that’s funny.
An external clock always outweighs the harmonics below -140db
First, post a link to prove the source if you claim something”, these are your own words, yet here you are making yet another (false) claim with no link at all, let alone “First”! And, it’s even more ridiculous because evidence/links have been provided demonstrating the opposite, that external clocks cause at best the same and typically more noise/distortion/harmonics.
Remember: if it measures poorly but sounds good, you're taking the wrong measurement.
The measurement is the output of the DAC/s. So unless you’re trying to listen to the clock signal itself, instead of a DAC’s output, what do you think would be the right measurement? Additionally, what you’re telling us to “Remember” is false anyway, because there are many cases where sounds/signals “measure poorly but sounds good” and are not the “wrong measurement”. Euphonic distortion is an obvious example but there are various others.

G
 
Oct 24, 2023 at 2:03 AM Post #2,917 of 3,361
For the complete avoidance of doubt, I do not believe the Gustard K-2 to be a defective design. Indeed, it's an excellent clock synth using as it does an internal clock combined with, if connected, an external clock to further 'discipline' it. It's clear that Gustard took a long time developing it and it is used in all three of their top platforms: X26 Pro, R26 and A26.

To my ears, it sounds extremely detailed with low noise floor, good timbre and a very nicely developed soundstage. A tungsten cube on each of mine has elicited further performance improvements. The proof is always in the listening and the sound I am achieving is the best I have yet heard.
Yes, I think the K2 synthesizer is doing a great job, otherwise the DAC can't be sounding that good.

On the tungsten cube, a few questions :

1) you put one each on U18 and the DAC?
2) what size did you use?
3) did you stick it on using blutek? or just put it on top of K2?

I am planning to try the same.
 
Oct 24, 2023 at 2:37 AM Post #2,918 of 3,361
On the tungsten cube, a few questions :

1) you put one each on U18 and the DAC?
2) what size did you use?
3) did you stick it on using blutek? or just put it on top of K2?

I am planning to try the same.
1) yes, one on each K-2 of the U18 and X26 Pro

2) 20mm pure tungsten cube

3) 2-part epoxy bonded. Yes, I know it sounds risky, but I have experimented before with tungsten cubes and OCXOs and knew that permanent bonding sounds very good. A friend of mine has tried using Blu-tack to good effect so you can try that, too.

I have subsequently put some Dodomat around the cube in the X26 Pro and that has slightly improved the sound. I'm uncertain whether it's due to damping or thermal isolation - perhaps both.
 

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Oct 24, 2023 at 3:16 AM Post #2,919 of 3,361
...
I do agree with you Martin. I don’t believe the K2 to be “defective”, I think it does a great job and needs nothing.
In the end, the K2 is sufficient and Gustard is planning the possibility of an external clock to sell its U18s ?
Is this pure marketing ?
Or maybe the idea is to use a master clock as a real master. In other words, one that sets the tempo on several devices : not only dac, eg. dac + Afterdark ethernet card.
Otherwise, this thread is going round in circles !
 
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Oct 24, 2023 at 4:07 AM Post #2,920 of 3,361
In the end, the K2 is sufficient and Gustard is planning the possibility of an external clock to sell its U18s ?
Is this pure marketing ?
No, because the U18 is good and the U18 with external clock is even better.
Some of us have already tried these combinations.

Gustard designed the K-2 and U18 well.
 
Oct 24, 2023 at 9:00 AM Post #2,921 of 3,361
Hello everyone! I wanted to share my experience with the Afterdark Giesmann Master Clock, specifically the Emperor Signature SE model. After receiving valuable input from all of you, I decided to go ahead and purchase this clock. Being located in Hong Kong had its advantages, as I was able to place the order and receive the clock on the same day.

My initial impression of the clock can be summed up in one word: WOW! It truly exceeded my expectations. The first noticeable improvement was the significant increase in resolution. The sound became more realistic and holographic, creating a captivating listening experience. The treble is exceptionally smooth, and the bass is where the clock truly shines. It delivers deep, textured bass with a remarkable sense of definition. Backgroud is DARK! The overall impact on my Gustard R26 setup is enormous. I believe the clock's ability to synchronize everything into harmony contributes to this transformation.

I was informed that it would take approximately 35 days for the clock to reach its fully stable and optimum state. I'm excited to embark on this journey and observe the changes that occur during the burn-in period. Rest assured, I will report back to provide updates on how the clock continues to enhance my listening experience.

Thank you all for your guidance and support throughout this process I truly appreciate it.
 
Oct 24, 2023 at 9:04 AM Post #2,922 of 3,361
Yes, your AD clock will steadily improve over the next month or so.

Your description of the improvements exactly matches mine.
 
Oct 24, 2023 at 9:05 AM Post #2,923 of 3,361
Hello everyone! I wanted to share my experience with the Afterdark Giesmann Master Clock, specifically the Emperor Signature SE model. After receiving valuable input from all of you, I decided to go ahead and purchase this clock. Being located in Hong Kong had its advantages, as I was able to place the order and receive the clock on the same day.

My initial impression of the clock can be summed up in one word: WOW! It truly exceeded my expectations. The first noticeable improvement was the significant increase in resolution. The sound became more realistic and holographic, creating a captivating listening experience. The treble is exceptionally smooth, and the bass is where the clock truly shines. It delivers deep, textured bass with a remarkable sense of definition. Backgroud is DARK! The overall impact on my Gustard R26 setup is enormous. I believe the clock's ability to synchronize everything into harmony contributes to this transformation.

I was informed that it would take approximately 35 days for the clock to reach its fully stable and optimum state. I'm excited to embark on this journey and observe the changes that occur during the burn-in period. Rest assured, I will report back to provide updates on how the clock continues to enhance my listening experience.

Thank you all for your guidance and support throughout this process I truly appreciate it.
Lol someone needs to actually read this thread!
 
Oct 24, 2023 at 9:16 AM Post #2,924 of 3,361
For the complete avoidance of doubt, I do not believe the Gustard K-2 to be a defective design. Indeed, it's an excellent clock synth using as it does an internal clock combined with, if connected, an external clock to further 'discipline' it. It's clear that Gustard took a long time developing it and it is used in all three of their top platforms: X26 Pro, R26 and A26.

To my ears, it sounds extremely detailed with low noise floor, good timbre and a very nicely developed soundstage. A tungsten cube on each of mine has elicited further performance improvements. The proof is always in the listening and the sound I am achieving is the best I have yet heard.
Gustard femto clock on its own is good and the K2 synth that receives the clock signal is not bad either as long as it can keep up with the clock fluctuations caused by the surrounding components of the DAC.

An oven controlled external master clock is of course even better because the PCB design is build around the clock. It serves one purpose: to provide the clock with the cleanest power available so that the external master clock can provide the K2 synth inside R26 DAC with a steady signal.

R26 is an outstanding DAC that according to SoundNews is a small step beyond Chord Dave.

Dont believe the BS Camrector aka GoldenOne is talking about. Dont even know how many handles this guy has. Hes knowledge is based on hearsay from Dinosaurs that are stuck in the year 2000.

His statements are legit for the year 2000, but technology has evolved since then.

Excerpt down below from his page about the Gustard x26 measurements, where he falsely claims that an external clock is not feeding the K2 synth in X26, but is controlling the pace of the internal clock which is BS incase of the Gustard X26 & R26 😂 (btw. Dont get me wrong, his claim comes from the music production industry which indeed are not false, because master clock were used to synchronise multiple ADC, but he is pulling the same claim over modern DACs which have nothing in common with ADC)

IMG_5295.jpeg


In case of X26 &R26, the external master clock bypasses the internal femto clock and is feeding directly the K2 synthesizer which is controlled by a VCXO.
 
Oct 24, 2023 at 9:24 AM Post #2,925 of 3,361
Hello everyone! I wanted to share my experience with the Afterdark Giesmann Master Clock, specifically the Emperor Signature SE model. After receiving valuable input from all of you, I decided to go ahead and purchase this clock. Being located in Hong Kong had its advantages, as I was able to place the order and receive the clock on the same day.

My initial impression of the clock can be summed up in one word: WOW! It truly exceeded my expectations. The first noticeable improvement was the significant increase in resolution. The sound became more realistic and holographic, creating a captivating listening experience. The treble is exceptionally smooth, and the bass is where the clock truly shines. It delivers deep, textured bass with a remarkable sense of definition. Backgroud is DARK! The overall impact on my Gustard R26 setup is enormous. I believe the clock's ability to synchronize everything into harmony contributes to this transformation.

I was informed that it would take approximately 35 days for the clock to reach its fully stable and optimum state. I'm excited to embark on this journey and observe the changes that occur during the burn-in period. Rest assured, I will report back to provide updates on how the clock continues to enhance my listening experience.

Thank you all for your guidance and support throughout this process I truly appreciate it.
Glad to hear that.
Had the same experience! The holographic experience is something special where you get enveloped by the music.
 

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