[piguetpolo]

Public Service Announcement. There's a forum "ignore user" feature that works quite well. Cleans up your feed nicely.

 

[joenetic]

Actually if the 10Mhz master clock can improve the sound quality and decrease jitter, one important part is how is the device e.g. DDC or DAC apply the master clock and how good is the PLL system and power in this device, I think most of us are using master clock in home audio devices, but not studio equipment, so the quality of the FPGA and PLL in these home devices are most important, if the PLL is not fast enough, it cannot adjust the output clock and decrease the jitter fast enough, even best master clock is not use, FPGA to convert 10Mhz clock into different frequencies, not just divide by integer. So just discuss on external clock add jitter or not is just part of story, we all have different audio devices, different clock devices, hard to compare directly. I read this thread is due to my interest on this hobby, but not search for truth or find out what is right or wrong, believe that most of brothers here are too, so don't care about what is right or wrong or true or false or professional or not professional, just get more fun from what we did, I spent some money on this hobby, the system is far from high end, because I did wrong or I spent not enough? May be yes or no, who care, I keep trying new things and spending $$, it is fun, it is most important, and I did find sound better with external 10Mhz clock to the system compare with internal clock, it is fun and happy someone may not agree but it is fine, because system by system, person by person, place by place, I did what I want without affect others, end of my bull crap

 

[jimmychan]

The “ignore“ works really well.

 

[camrector]

Actually if the 10Mhz master clock can improve the sound quality and decrease jitter, one important part is how is the device e.g. DDC or DAC apply the master clock and how good is the PLL system and power in this device, I think most of us are using master clock in home audio devices, but not studio equipment, so the quality of the FPGA and PLL in these home devices are most important, if the PLL is not fast enough, it cannot adjust the output clock and decrease the jitter fast enough, even best master clock is not use, FPGA to convert 10Mhz clock into different frequencies, not just divide by integer. So just discuss on external clock add jitter or not is just part of story, we all have different audio devices, different clock devices, hard to compare directly. I read this thread is due to my interest on this hobby, but not search for truth or find out what is right or wrong, believe that most of brothers here are too, so don't care about what is right or wrong or true or false or professional or not professional, just get more fun from what we did, I spent some money on this hobby, the system is far from high end, because I did wrong or I spent not enough? May be yes or no, who care, I keep trying new things and spending $$, it is fun, it is most important, and I did find sound better with external 10Mhz clock to the system compare with internal clock, it is fun and happy someone may not agree but it is fine, because system by system, person by person, place by place, I did what I want without affect others, end of my bull crap

I posted a video that you can watch that explains what you are talking about.
I also said that if the designer can’t manage to design a proper stable internal clock then the designer isn’t going to manage an even harder to design stable synchronisation circuit.

 

[bodiebill2]

The “ignore“ works really well.

it does, thanks, what a relieve!

 

[Dandoudou]

I have studied this subject in-depth.

How could you study it without practicing it? In other words, without listening?
Theory must be backed by experiments. If it does not work in practice, something's wrong with the theory. Then the theory is revised, and son on… until a better theory appears. That's how science works.

 

[MartinWT]

How could you study it without practicing it? In other words, without listening?

Exactly what I said earlier. The pursuit is the enjoyment of music, which is an ear/brain emotion.

No measurements can exactly capture what we hear, in fact they fall far short. We can't even measure something as audible as soundstage depth with any accuracy.

I'm an engineer and I know that there comes a time to experience it rather than measure it.

 

[camrector]

How could you study it without practice? In other words, without listening?
In science, theory must be proven by experience.

I have listened to the OCK 2, the Mutec and the Gustard C18. All on my own system and on others.

 

[camrector]

Exactly what I said earlier. The pursuit is the enjoyment of music, which is an ear/brain emotion.

No measurements can exactly capture what we hear, in fact they fall far short. We can't even measure something as audible as soundstage depth with any accuracy.

I'm an engineer and I know that there comes a time to experience it rather than measure it.

As an engineer you should know that everything is based on science. EVERYTHING has an explanation.
You don’t build something just by eye.
As an engineer you absolutely know this.
And you for sure don’t just pass something off something because you don’t understand it and don’t like the answers the science gives.
You like the sound of distortion that’s ok.

 

[ray12345]

I have listened to the OCK 2, the Mutec and the Gustard C18. All on my own system and on others.

ok scientific guy, if you tried all the above and found there is no improvement in your system, I can give a very simple explanation.

It is like putting premium petrol into a Toyota Corolla, you won't feel crap, because it is a Corolla. You put the same premium petrol into a Porsche, you will feel the car goes better than normal petrol. You are driving a Corolla and claiming to everyone in the world that premium petrol doesn't work, you get it?

 

[Crypt Keeper]

Absolutely untrue.



The problem with these clock theories you guys have is that it further confuses people and spreads inaccurate beliefs.
Sampling doesn't run directly off the external clock, but rather off an internal clock which is synchronized to the external one. This is a rather hard bit of circuitry to design than a good fixed rate crystal oscillator. So if the designer of the converter can't managed a stable internal clock, it seems unlikely that he'll manage a stable synchronisation circuit.

Hearing is believing .... I can do A to B with my -120.5 Db @ Hz / > 1.66E-13 Allan Deviation Cybershaft Clock .... The difference is huge. Can you do that ? I don't think so ...

 

[camrector]

ok scientific guy, if you tried all the above and found there is no improvement in your system, I can give a very simple explanation.

It is like putting premium petrol into a Toyota Corolla, you won't feel crap, because it is a Corolla. You put the same premium petrol into a Porsche, you will feel the car goes better than normal petrol. You are driving a Corolla and claiming to everyone in the world that premium petrol doesn't work, you get it?

Yeah going to have to say that isn’t the case. I don’t pretended to have an endgame system but it’s resolving and mid fi enough.
Yamaha AS2200, Gustard R26, Puritan 156, Netgear GS 105, TeraDac Fmc (clean side). CSS audio 1tdx
Not a Corolla by any means.

 

[camrector]

Hearing is believing .... I can do A to B with my -120.5 Db @ Hz / > 1.66E-13 Allan Deviation Cybershaft Clock .... The difference is huge. Can you do that ? I don't think so ...

I’m still trying to find the place where I said clocks sound like crap?
I have said over and over that what you are hearing is the effects of intermodulation and harmonic distortion.
Many people like that coloration.
And yes I can A/B pushing a button on DAC remote

 

[ray12345]

Yeah going to have to say that isn’t the case. I don’t pretended to have an endgame system but it’s resolving and mid fi enough.
Yamaha AS2200, Gustard R26, Puritan 156, Netgear GS 105, TeraDac Fmc (clean side). CSS audio 1tdx
Not a Corolla by any means.

just out of interest, what clock cable are you using when you compare then? or you also don't believe clock cable makes a difference?

BTW, when I say Corolla I am referring to how the whole system sounds, not the price. I only owned a $10k system, but I hear $100k system that sounds worse than mine. Unfortunately, in all my years being a so called audiophile, equipment is only half the job, the setup and matching of components is the other half.

I am really interested though when you say Mutec, C18, OCK-2 all sound crap, do you mean there is no difference or do you mean having a clock connected makes you system sound even worse?

 

[camrector]

just out of interest, what clock cable are you using when you compare then? or you also don't believe clock cable makes a difference?

BTW, when I say Corolla I am referring to how the whole system sounds, not the price. I only owned a $10k system, but I hear $100k system that sounds worse than mine. Unfortunately, in all my years being a so called audiophile, equipment is only half the job, the setup and matching of components is the other half.

I am really interested though when you say Mutec, C18, OCK-2 all sound crap, do you mean there is no difference or do you mean having a clock connected makes you system sound even worse?

Same. My humble 10k system bests a lot of real high end stuff as well. Optimized for digital stream.
Focus Fidelity convolution fir filters for room correction and time alignment. Picture perfect step response.

The OCK2 made zero difference. Both the Gustard and Mutec was just harmonic distortion coloration. Not a fan.
You can get the same effect with Nelson Passes $8 harmonic distortion generator.
Cables make a world of difference. There are better ones for sure but we used the CyberShaft 50ohm cable.
We also used a Mini Circuits BLP-10.7 low pass filter.
No audible improvement for the OCK2 (we didn’t know that LHY gives you an impedance mismatch straight outta the box) with the filter.
Mutec and Gustard sounded sharper.
(Reduced some harmonic distortion)
No clock was/is worth the cost.

I am really interested though when you say Mutec, C18, OCK-2 all sound crap,

Where have I ever said this!!???! Lol