[OCC7N]

It’s not luck, it’s logic.
Did you buy your speakers without knowing if they were 4 ohm or 8ohm?
Did you build your streamer after reaching in to the random parts bin to play “silicon lottery”?
Send me $500 and I’ll send you a device with zero measurements, but I promise it will make your system sound great.

The heart of the stramer is Corsair AX1600i yes I read test and measurement for days/months. My ears does tell me it sounds good. Also bought LHY LPSU80VA in dual 5V/7A configuration with Cardas cable and oyaide connectors. It was meant as a cheap replacement for iFi Elite and saving one more powercable....I did not read any measurements on this, but as it is burnin in, I can tell it works incredible. If I were a real hifi listener I would have dedicated streamer for audio, but I want AIO solution so I can also enjoy gaming/discord on a higher level, hence the Afterdark X1 card.

Playing with the Afterdark X1 and Merging anubis lead me to learn a little about the internal timing of windows and doing tweaks on the W32Time registry and enabling PTP instead of the NTP. Further more it made it more interesting regarding music on the ethernet domain in general regarding "precision" clock performance.

As we move into ethernet more and cloud enviroments this could be a interesting thing.

https://theiabm.org/audio-parts-smpte-st-2110-explained/

 

[camrector]

So you haven't heard the ock2 clock but you hate it because you say it has poor measurements.

Do you have links to these measurements and the measurements of comparable devices from a 3rd party source? Just out of curiosity, whic particular metric measures poorly and what does it sound like ?

Send me this device and I'll verify your claim, I don't need measurements, thats what ears are for.

What specifically are you referring to with the silicon lottery? Because we are not overclocking anything here, the silicon is built to meet a specific standard, if you push it past that standard then the silicon lottery comes into play. I think you're confusing different things here.

Yes I have heard it. It made zero difference in my system because for 1 a 10mhz clock isn’t designed to improve sound quality. Secondly my dac has a great clock directly next to the D/A convertor. Where it should be. Not feet away connected by some cable that is prone to interference jitter and impedance mismatches.

What measurements are you referring to? LHY removed their phase noise measurements when a third party proved them to be false. Here.
https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/...ock-for-your-etherregen/?do=userPosts&mid=231

Here is another good article because it doesn’t sound like you understand clocks very well

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...Swenson_Clock_Considerations.pdf?v=1616799482

The “silicon lottery” refers to LHY not being able to verify their product.
The clocks they use are all repurposed off old cell towers etc etc. Clocks over time degrade. So it’s a lottery on which clock you receive, what it measures, what condition it’s in etc etc.

 

[dougms3]

Yes I have heard it. It made zero difference in my system because for 1 a 10mhz clock isn’t designed to improve sound quality. Secondly my dac has a great clock directly next to the D/A convertor. Where it should be. Not feet away connected by some cable that is prone to interference jitter and impedance mismatches.

What measurements are you referring to? LHY removed their phase noise measurements when a third party proved them to be false. Here.
https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/...ock-for-your-etherregen/?do=userPosts&mid=231

Here is another good article because it doesn’t sound like you understand clocks very well

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...Swenson_Clock_Considerations.pdf?v=1616799482

The “silicon lottery” refers to LHY not being able to verify their product.
The clocks they use are all repurposed off old cell towers etc etc. Clocks over time degrade. So it’s a lottery on which clock you receive, what it measures, what condition it’s in etc etc.

Lol ok just remember that you started this. I'm gonna guess you're gonna double down.

You're ignoring a critical factor, that you think you have the capability of hearing the difference.

Perhaps I'm missing something but there doesn't seem to be anything in those links that shows that the ock2 measures poorly, try snipping a picture and posting here. Otherwise I can do the same thing, ie "I have proof I'm right about everything, look at it" google.com.

Looks like you're the one that doesn't understand clocks very well and also silicon lottery for that matter. If everyone here that has the ock2 can hear an improvement except for you, what does that tell you? Logic....

If you dont like it don't get one.

So you verified that LHY is using repurposed clocks? Where do you even come up with this stuff. Just FYI, thats not what silicon lottery means.

And what device will you be sending me that "you promise, will make my system sound great". Call, money, mouth.

 

[OCC7N]

Yes I have heard it. It made zero difference in my system because for 1 a 10mhz clock isn’t designed to improve sound quality. Secondly my dac has a great clock directly next to the D/A convertor. Where it should be. Not feet away connected by some cable that is prone to interference jitter and impedance mismatches.

What measurements are you referring to? LHY removed their phase noise measurements when a third party proved them to be false. Here.
https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/...ock-for-your-etherregen/?do=userPosts&mid=231

Here is another good article because it doesn’t sound like you understand clocks very well

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...Swenson_Clock_Considerations.pdf?v=1616799482

The “silicon lottery” refers to LHY not being able to verify their product.
The clocks they use are all repurposed off old cell towers etc etc. Clocks over time degrade. So it’s a lottery on which clock you receive, what it measures, what condition it’s in etc etc.

"
Recently several people have messaged me asking if we are ever going to publish the phase-noise plot of the LHY OCK-1 that Rob (@Exocer) loaned us and which was pictured on @JohnSwenson's test bench. For a variety of reasons I am not going to publish the graph. The performance was far below the -110dBc/Hz @1Hz offset that had been claimed on the LHY/Beatechnik website. -91dBc/Hz is what we measured (and -121dBc/Hz at 10Hz).
This was quite disappointing and surprising and since I like and respect Alvin Chee of Vinshine, I wrote to him immediately with our findings, to give he and LHY an opportunity to comment. He spoke with LHY and they indicated that they had based their published specifications on a third-party in China (perhaps just their source for the OCXOs themselves). They were very concerned but indicated it would not at all be practicable for Vinshine or LHY to individually certify their clock boxes, given the low retail price of the units. That is understandable. LHY/Beatechnik has since removed phase-noise specifications from the web pages for both OCK-1 and OCK-2."

Some people write some stuff.....they were asked to publish.
"

LOL it was the OCK-1....

One is bad lets say all is bad!. haha

@camrector what dac do you have with such an amazing clock that it does not needs its own powersupply?

:::

Isnt JohnSwenson/Uptone known for bashing competing products?

 

[Fibre101]

Question. About the copper foil for the bnc connectors. Is it only one end or do I need to wrap both ends for the ddc and clock? Also is it worth doing if Ive already got the ht cable?

 

[camrector]

So you verified that LHY is using repurposed clocks? Where do you even come up with this stuff. Just FYI, thats not what silicon lottery means.

Yes. Most companies repurpose components.
After Dark buys sorts and measures all of his clocks this way. It’s a very common practice.

And what device will you be sending me that "you promise, will make my system sound great

Clocks (especially square wave) generate a lot of harmonic distortion. So seeing as how you like to inject distortion into your audio system via a cheap clock, I’ll one up that garbage and send you a Nelson Pass 2nd order harmonic noise generator.
https://www.firstwatt.com/pdf/art_h2.pdf

If everyone here that has the ock2 can hear an improvement except for you, what does that tell you?

That confirmation bias is real.
Please read
1/ 1980s Dr Steve Harris (Crystal/Cirrus Logic ) AES papers eg effects of jitter on noise
2/1980s.,..1990s Dr Julian DUNN AES and AP papers ,
3/ Audio Precision app notes 1980s..1990s
You’ll really get a handle on this.

LHY/Beatechnik has since removed phase-noise specifications from the web pages for both OCK-1 and OCK-2."


One is bad lets say all is bad!. haha

Then why remove the most important performance metric measurement from the OCK-2 if it is all good?
That seems like a very dumb thing to do

Isnt JohnSwenson/Uptone known for bashing competing products?

Uptone doesn’t make a clock. They make the EtherRegen that has 10mhz clock input.

I’ll post the graph that they wouldn’t for you to see. It’s horrendous.

 

[Jake2]

Question. About the copper foil for the bnc connectors. Is it only one end or do I need to wrap both ends for the ddc and clock? Also is it worth doing if Ive already got the ht cable?

I’d advise trying wrapping both ends, as closely/tightly as you can right* across the junction of cable plug and female socket. For me I could hear an additive difference in doing so at each end with the HT DC III. Might depend on your DDC and clock, but given it’s basically free worth a go.

*A tip I learned from trial and error to allow quick ABs is leave a good edge you can use to peel it off quickly, albeit destructively to the foil. Best way I found to do this is cut a piece of about a 5cm length place it under the BNC junction then fold up hugging the sides close as you can till both sides join in the top centre with adhesive faces meeting together vertically in a flap of a cm or so. Fold this flap down to one side squeezing the foil 360 degrees firmly around the contours of the plug and socket to minimise visible air gaps = RF ingress gaps. To remove just unfold one edge of the flap and rip off. You’ll need to reapply with a new piece of foil.

Good luck!

 

[OCC7N]

Yes. Most companies repurpose components.
After Dark buys sorts and measures all of his clocks this way. It’s a very common practice.

Clocks (especially square wave) generate a lot of harmonic distortion. So seeing as how you like to inject distortion into your audio system via a cheap clock, I’ll one up that garbage and send you a Nelson Pass 2nd order harmonic noise generator.
https://www.firstwatt.com/pdf/art_h2.pdf


That confirmation bias is real.
Please read
1/ 1980s Dr Steve Harris (Crystal/Cirrus Logic ) AES papers eg effects of jitter on noise
2/1980s.,..1990s Dr Julian DUNN AES and AP papers ,
3/ Audio Precision app notes 1980s..1990s
You’ll really get a handle on this.

Then why remove the most important performance metric measurement from the OCK-2 if it is all good?
That seems like a very dumb thing to do


Uptone doesn’t make a clock. They make the EtherRegen that has 10mhz clock input.

I’ll post the graph that they wouldn’t for you to see. It’s horrendous.

Why why why.

What is the name of your dac with clock performance better than ock-2?

and please bring the measurements

 

[dougms3]

Yes. Most companies repurpose components.
After Dark buys sorts and measures all of his clocks this way. It’s a very common practice.

Clocks (especially square wave) generate a lot of harmonic distortion. So seeing as how you like to inject distortion into your audio system via a cheap clock, I’ll one up that garbage and send you a Nelson Pass 2nd order harmonic noise generator.
https://www.firstwatt.com/pdf/art_h2.pdf


That confirmation bias is real.
Please read
1/ 1980s Dr Steve Harris (Crystal/Cirrus Logic ) AES papers eg effects of jitter on noise
2/1980s.,..1990s Dr Julian DUNN AES and AP papers ,
3/ Audio Precision app notes 1980s..1990s
You’ll really get a handle on this.

Then why remove the most important performance metric measurement from the OCK-2 if it is all good?
That seems like a very dumb thing to do


Uptone doesn’t make a clock. They make the EtherRegen that has 10mhz clock input.

I’ll post the graph that they wouldn’t for you to see. It’s horrendous.

So because you've heard that most companies repurpose components including afterdark amongst others but have no proof of this, yet point this out as a negative only for the ock2 even though you believe other manufacturers are doing this? Just trying to understand your logic there.

I'm familiar with harmonic distortion, that link that you provided explains harmonic distortion, doesn't show measurements of the ock2...

Yes absolutely the confirmation bias is real... for you. And where in those articles will I find info that the ock2 negatively affects the sound, perhaps you'd like to save me some time?

Good question, another good question is why does it make everyone's system sound better if its so bad as you say?

You linked to forum post on another forum and provided that as proof, that post does not include much information nor tests of other devices. And I believe that's exocer's ock1 that they measured not the ock2. He's on this forum as well.

So you what happens if your device that promises to "make my system sound great" doesn't pan out? Care to wager on that?

 

[nikko510]

You can write what you want, but in my system the OCK-2 does a very good job. My daughter just needs a few sounds and in a blind test she will immediately indicate the plugged in clock.
I have three inexpensive clocks and I do not regret the money spent on them, each of them brings something positive to my system.
There are definitely better clocks that I would like to have, but recently they have become very expensive, maybe one day I will buy one.

 

[MartinWT]

Isnt JohnSwenson/Uptone known for bashing competing products

Actually, I don't think he does that. When he publishes data he does it with a complete run-down of his equipment. His white papers are authoritative and educational. He also openly states that he doesn't really think an external clock benefits, say, his EtherREGEN. That's fine and I don't agree with him, but I respect his opinion.

In my view external clocks can dramatically improve sound quality and I don't think anyone quite understands the full picture. Certainly the argument that a DAC has a perfectly good clock next to it (Crystek 575, anyone) is specious. Equipment like my Gustard DDC and DAC have something going on inside their excellent K-2 synthesiser that makes incredible use of an external 10MHz clock that defies expectations. Yes, in my opinion, a good external 10MHz clock certainly improves sound quality, whatever the original design intent may have been.

 

[OCC7N]

I lost respect for the uptone people when I recently hear about the drama about nuprime/Chord ee8. Disclosing private messages like that. Who knows what else these uptone people would do. They are suspects in my eyes

 

[Dandoudou]

I lost respect for the uptone people when I recently hear about the drama about nuprime/Chord ee8.

I have no idea to what you refer. What happened?

 

[OCC7N]

I have no idea to what you refer. What happened?

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/...er-regen-english-electric-8switch-comparison/

 

[camrector]

I lost respect for the uptone people when I recently hear about the drama about nuprime/Chord ee8. Disclosing private messages like that. Who knows what else these uptone people would do. They are suspects in my eyes

Exposing a company selling a $20 switch as a high end design is some how wrong to you? Wow! I didn’t think morally bankrupt people really existed!! And I thought leftist globalist were bad!! Jeez.
Transparency is an ultimate win for the customer!