[Neruda]

yeah, we won't spend $5,000 on a source, but God forbid we use a standard power outlet!

Man, we're really being mean to the jude dude aren't we?

 

[bakhtiar]

beowulf

Quote:

I think those 3K's of yours were broken, vertigo.

I thinks everyone have their OWN opinions, since everyone do hear things differently.

 

[coolvij]

bakhtiar: you DID notice the smiley, right?

 

[bakhtiar]

coolvij

Quote:

bakhtiar: you DID notice the smiley, right?

Opps!

, I am sorry, I did not notice the smiley, since I disable graphics/pictures on my Opera (Linux) web browser setting by default.

 

[coolvij]

lol! That would do it for sure............ : D

 

[MooGoesTheCow]

Quote:

Originally posted by Vertigo-1 Moo...I actually wanted to throw in the Ety 4S, but I was doing this review at 4 in the morning...but, I'll throw em in tonight. Look for an edit soon...

And the cows came running out of the barn...

 

[RGA]

I'm a bit puzzled. You say the HD600s are being outgunned...but you compare them to a $4000.00 Sony...which by Lord should be 20 times better since the're nearly 20 times the price...Ohh but they're not 20 times better...they're arguably not 2 times better.

That aside I have not heard the HP, But I have heard the RS 1...it's different sounding...but it's not better. This was the set I was planning to buy when I heard the 600s. I can see someone going for the RS1...they have stronger points, oddly the midrange was more neutral in the HD600...the RS1 had their own signature...which is good, but You're stuck with it even with tube amps...In other words you better love that RS sound...if you do you'll be in heaven...if you want to have the sound dissapear and leave the music...then get the HD600 like me.

The lower Grado models(SR 80 and 325) sound harsh and far too forward for my liking...again though I do see their appeal...I just don't kno how someone could listen for more than 1/2hour ... far too uncomfortable.

It's pretty tough to outgun a product that hit the nail on the head...and if everything that supposedly beats costs 20 times as much...Sennheiser will be pleased....because they'll sell 50,000 times more of them.

 

[Raymond Kim]

Quote:

I'm a bit puzzled. You say the HD600s are being outgunned...but you compare them to a $4000.00 Sony...which by Lord should be 20 times better since the're nearly 20 times the price...Ohh but they're not 20 times better...they're arguably not 2 times better.

You should notice that vertigo has said:

Quote:

but if there's one finding I have, it's that I'm discovering more and more that the HD-600s are getting outclassed and outgunned by the other [size=small]three[/size] headphones.

The three, meaning the Sony CD3000, Alessandro Music Series Pro, and the Grado HP-1.

 

[Tim D]

Why feel so defensive anyhow...who cares. If you're happy than you're happy.

I mean not everyone is going to agree about liking Aqua either! Haha jk! (notices that Vertigo explicity mentions that Aqua wasn't included...hmmm has people been bothering him bout that or what? hehe).

As for values...I think most headphones people talk about rank pretty high in terms of value...wheter or not you think one phone has much more value than another is really preference.

For example I tend to think that even a low-end Grado with a simple cmoy amp has more "value" than a SennHD600 if it doesn't have a very good dedicated amp. As in a $300 dollar minimum.

Also some people were lucky and bought HP headphones at a price that could be resold at more than double...thats pretty good value. Likewise even the MSP's could have been had during rare sales, or used sales for still a good value. There is no contest that SennHD600 are still probably the easiest to get at a good value, but I think they need a headphone amp that costs more than they do...

 

[Vertigo-1]

Ray, thanks for the defense, but I did mean all of the above...I added the CD3000s in last, and forgot to edit the post. So my position still stands...the HD-600 is getting outgunned by the other four headphones.

By saying outgunned, it is totally my own position on them, after hearing every single other good dynamic headphone that is made today. If you owned my other headphones, and owned everything I used to own, you'd probably come to the same conclusion that I did, maybe with a shift in rankings because of preferences. This whole thing is a comparison after all, and if you want to remove my bias and read about how each headphone sounds, you could just do that too.

Generally I've read two types of reviews...ones that concentrate on value, and ones that concentrate on the product. I like to do the latter. If you're of the former, you should feel VERY happy that the HD-600s are even on the same page as the MDR-R10s!

Quote:

I'm a bit puzzled. You say the HD600s are being outgunned...but you compare them to a $4000.00 Sony...which by Lord should be 20 times better since the're nearly 20 times the price...Ohh but they're not 20 times better...they're arguably not 2 times better.

By that last phrase, I assume you've owned the R10s for at least 6 months, and swapped about 3 or 4 amps to make sure the R10s are performing at their absolute best. And given them their due time since they do only cost an arm and a leg, and the "empty wallet" backlash tends to be stronger than usual.

Value is a preference...if we all totally bought on extreme value, we'd never be willing to pay more than $300 for a headphones. As you said, the RS-1 is not better, it simply sounds different. And yet it costs twice as much as the HD-600. So how do people justify that "value"? You could find just as many RS-1 owners as there are HD-600 owners I'm sure.

I willingly paid the high price on the R10s because I value their sound. And that I believe is really all I need to say on the issue of a headphone's price. Let's not start digging into each other's wallets and bank accounts now shall we?

We're all here for headphones after all.

Also keep in mind I never explicitly said that the R10s were better than the other headphones. I also still own the HD-600s, because I still occasionally like to hear their different sound. Like I've always believe, value and sound is always in the eyes and ears of the beholder. Assuming you've beheld it at all.

 

[kerykeion]

Quote:

Moo...I actually wanted to throw in the Ety 4S, but I was doing this review at 4 in the morning...but, I'll throw em in tonight. Look for an edit soon...

I don't want to push you or anything, but I would also like to see how the Ety 4S fits in with the rest of the bunch.

 

[Vertigo-1]

Don't worry, if it's still in my profile, it's still a part of my personal elite squad of headphones.

I'll put the Etys in soon...

 

[RGA]

Vertigo 1

Actually Vertigo I've not heard the Sony R10s. And they may indeed be a better can. You'd know since you have em both. But, I've also been in the audio loop for quite a number of years and know that money spent and sound quality attained don't go hand in hand. For instance the HD600 is a subtle improvement over the 580. The 600 cost 30-40% more money for maybe a 10% improvement(and some may argue that percentage).

I have heard, However, what everyone seems to believe as "THE BEST" headphone set-up going. The Orpheus rig at $18,000Canadian...now $11,000.00CDN cause thedealer here has not sold one in 3 years. Unfortunately, the Orpheus rig LOOKS so wonderous that the usual expectation effect enters the mind of the listener. In other words it is assumed that the Orpheus will be light years better just by looks and price. Now, it is terrific don't get me wrong...but if anyone would stick the HD600 into the tube amp section(which is the biggest part of that 18k sticker) then you would find out how good those HD600s are...and how not that much better the Headphone part of the Orpheus rig is(I believe the model is called HEV90).

I don't know about you but what I find with most headphones...and indeed speakers...is that they sound quite different...I've heard $1200.00 speakers that have superior qualities to $5,000.00 speakers. Indeed my little B&W DM302s do some things better than my Flagship Wharfedale Vanguards.

Don't get me wrong...I'd take most 5k speakers over 1k speakers... I may even do the same with headphones...I just believe the point at which headphones make drastically major improvements is far lower. There are $14,000 Referance 3a La Suprema's that are awefully tough to beat...Nautilus and Martin Logan Statements...toss up...both cost more and the Nautilus 4 times the money. The La Suprema may be a better speaker than either.

I guess my problem is that when something like the RS1 which is twice the money...and IMO not as good where it counts...then it gets frustrating.

 

[jeremymayf]

Nice review vertigo,
But you know, I'm not sure I understand everything you said about the R-10's--perhaps you better bring 'em over to my house so I can try them on the 333?

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

If you owned my other headphones, and owned everything I used to own, you'd probably come to the same conclusion that I did, maybe with a shift in rankings because of preferences.

LOL, Vert, I'm not sure I understand that sentence. Aren't your conclusions the rankings?