[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cAsE sEnSiTiVe /img/forum/go_quote.gif Actually my familiarity with those recordings was borne out of listening to them on some of the best home rigs that have ever been assembled...Mike Lavigne's Kharma & MM3 systems, Albert Porter's system, as well as Brooks Berdan's. One of the recordings, 'For Duke', I was actually present for the recording at M&K's studio, and know it, and the room it was recorded in, intimately. I recently have gotten into headphone's because of my move into a smaller, though nicer locale. To put this as nicely as I can, you might need to take a few more seconds before making the blanket assertion that Ultrasone is the only company whose design is capable of revealing what is buried deep within those pits, or grooves.

First of all where did I say that the Ultrasone is the only headphone able to reveal what is buried deep in those pits? I never said that, sorry to water your soup....Please if you are going to go over one of my statements, read it first, and try to understand what was stated before, OK?

First of all I was only talking of the presentation, the soundstage, or whatever you call it, that is the only parameter the S-Logic address, not accuracy, nor neutrality, not timbre, nothing else, soundstage and presentation, in front of you, period....

Those others are simply ghosts that we all follow, and try to make the system we prefer as the best all around, what is IMO another misleading info...Put it simply, I always, if you read my signature, state all my opinions as very personal and subjective, what I like and period, not what you like nor what is supposed to sound like (that was why I stated there, I was sick of mentioning in every single post) Now again we will never know how the material recorded is supposed to sound like, it was degraded by cables, mikes, eqs, human factors, time, everything, so any statement after that is IMO a load of BS.

You can listen the best and more expensive system in the whole green planet, and you will be, regarding accuracy, neutrality, natural sound, and timbre, in the same exact position as listening to the worst, simply the sound recorded differs from reality to a degree that is unknown by you, so to state this is more accurate than this other, is IMO a load of BS, and to pretend to make it sound as the real life sound is a fraud, and you are cheating yourself.

And I'm saying how it is supposed to sound, the way it was recorded, not the way it sounded in front of you live...that result is always a ghost that nobody knows...period...you can mention expensive systems, as you did, I will reserve to mention the ones i ahve heard as it makes no difference at all, as to me is the same crap as to listen to a ipod regarding that issue.

I did not make any blanket statement, I stated that the Ultrasone's given the S-Logic technology, need time to get used to, and are, IMO, among the most natural headphones regarding the presentation out there, what IMO is not a blanket statement at all, I have listened a good amount of headphones, probably headphones that you never dreamed of, and I can tell you that. Now you can believe what you want later on, the only thing I hope is that you will find one that satisfy you, the same way the Editions do it for me, that is all about...period...

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by number1sixerfan /img/forum/go_quote.gif No offense, but the "s-logic" is nothing more than marketing lingo imo. It does nothing different than traditional headphones. The sound is no more holographic than any other can that has a decent soundstage with good imaging.

Guys I believed the same way you do, and I asked and try to find out deeper, trust me that after crossing a few emails with Florian, I can tell you that the guy has studied the human perceptions in details, and that it is not a marketing lingo. He had been studing the human perceptions for decades, and the S-Logic is a result of an long and detailed study, not a marketing strategy for him...You may find more info in their website, and in Florian's personal site, same as Etymotics, he has been studing the human hearing for long time, of course, they are not the only ones, and others as well will have a very good soundstage, the Edtion 9 is not the only hepadhone I like, I like many others, but it is the closer to my ideal, I only wish it could be more comfortable...

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by number1sixerfan /img/forum/go_quote.gif No offense, but the "s-logic" is nothing more than marketing lingo imo. It does nothing different than traditional headphones. The sound is no more holographic than any other can that has a decent soundstage with good imaging.

x2

I think S-logic actually screws up and muffles the sound. There is nothing NATURAL about the several Ultrasones I have heard. As for getting used to the Ultrasone sound .... if they didnt sound so weird and sibilant you would not have to get used to them.

All the other headphones presentations are wrong and the Ultrasone is right? I dont think so.

 

[cAsE sEnSiTiVe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller /img/forum/go_quote.gif First of all where did I say that the Ultrasone is the only headphone able to reveal what is buried deep in those pits? I never said that, sorry to water your soup....Please if you are going to go over one of my statements, read it first, and try to understand what was stated before, OK?

So I must have mistook your comments below for something else?


Originally Posted by Sovkiller


"Again it is not a matter of listening recording that you are familiar with or not, you have been listening those recordings for years the wrong way, using conventional headphones, the only way to achieve the speaker like presentation, in front of you, is using the crossfeed or using the S-logic (to a lesser degree) to get a more near-field listening exprience......"


...and of course we will NEVER know what the microphones know. This is common sense. Our job, if one so desires to reach for the Holy Grail, is to minimize sonic degradations towards the unattainable goal of hearing everything one does when listening to unamplified instruments being played in a real space.

My feeling is that while the E9's appear to be a well built, nice sounding headphone, they also, TO MY EARS, color the presentation....again, too much so FOR MY EARS.

YMMV

 

[nnotis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by number1sixerfan /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ditto...that just doesn't even sound right...

I wouldn't have believed it either if some relative noob, like me, made such a claim. But my D5000s are a small bit more resolving of textures and micro detail than my K1000s are. I've only got a Lavry DA10 to drive both (K1000s balanced, D5000 unbalanced.) So I'd be very interested in hearing comparisons between these two headphones on a system that could maximize the capabilities of both. It's entirely possible that a proper amp would offer a huge boost to the detail retrieval of the K1000s relative to what I can get from my system. I'm certainly ichin' to throw down several grand in order to find out.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cAsE sEnSiTiVe /img/forum/go_quote.gif So I must have mistook your comments below for something else? Originally Posted by Sovkiller "Again it is not a matter of listening recording that you are familiar with or not, you have been listening those recordings for years the wrong way, using conventional headphones, the only way to achieve the speaker like presentation, in front of you, is using the crossfeed or using the S-logic (to a lesser degree) to get a more near-field listening exprience......" ...and of course we will NEVER know what the microphones know. This is common sense. Our job, if one so desires to reach for the Holy Grail, is to minimize sonic degradations towards the unattainable goal of hearing everything one does when listening to unamplified instruments being played in a real space. My feeling is that while the E9's appear to be a well built, nice sounding headphone, they also, TO MY EARS, color the presentation....again, too much so FOR MY EARS. YMMV

I talked about heapdhones in general, and in a general case, not your particular case, and not about listening to speakers, speakers as we all know, is a completelly different experience, and depends much in the placement, space, acoustic treatment of the walls, and location of the listener among others....on hepadhones at least some of those parameters are more or less under control, "more or less"...

If you feel them colored so be it, I never said to you that they are not, and I will never be able to tell you, honestly, not knowing what the recording offers I simply can't. To me, all hepadhones out there with no single exception, differs from reality in one way or another, I like the Editions better, and enjoy them, that's it...but I can't tell you that they are the most acurate, or best heapdhones ever made, to me they are IME it is the best in production right now, the others I like as well, are all from the old school, and out of print for long time, to me the ED9 offer the most natural presentation, and I LIKE THEM, PERIOD...IT IS MY PREFERENCE!!! Nothing else...

About recordings, well, unamplified instruments will sound according to the location, venue, placement in the stage, and quality of the instrument itself, and their live sound is completelly different from the one recorded. In an studio there are a lot of wall treatments, the space is more constricted, not interaction between the instruments, as sometimes are recorded in different sessions, and most of the times there is a lot of precessing of the signal before and after, so they will never sound similar, not sure why the interest in making them to be as such, and try to beleive in a ghost??? I ahve ehard al ot of bands in front of me, in theaters and none of them sound similar ot the recordings, none of them...

Why not enjoying the recording better, with their limitations and period, audio is IMO a ghost, and it is far better to enjoy the art behind the audio, that at the end should be the holy goal of this hobby...For now just enjoy what you like and period, sorry, I will stop trying to covnince you of what you believe is the opposite, as that will never happen, so I better render my case here, and just believe what you feel is the truth for you guys, it could be big expensive tubes, paper in oil caps, magic pebbles, wood chunks, transformer coupled outputs, difference in digital cables, LPs that you feel sound better than digital, or whatever floats your boat, just do not forget to enjoy the art, the music behind all that at the end, OK?

 

[number1sixerfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nnotis /img/forum/go_quote.gif I wouldn't have believed it either if some relative noob, like me, made such a claim. But my D5000s are a small bit more resolving of textures and micro detail than my K1000s are. I've only got a Lavry DA10 to drive both (K1000s balanced, D5000 unbalanced.) So I'd be very interested in hearing comparisons between these two headphones on a system that could maximize the capabilities of both. It's entirely possible that a proper amp would offer a huge boost to the detail retrieval of the K1000s relative to what I can get from my system. I'm certainly ichin' to throw down several grand in order to find out.

Well that may explain it. The k1000's need a speaker amp to reach anywhere near their potential. I've had both and the K1000's have had the best detail of any headphone I've tried yet.

 

[Cool_Torpedo]

Come on mates, we're not going to start a flame war for such a trivial matter.
I haven't listened to the Ed9 myself, but some people whose judgment I trust have done, I happen to own a pair of HFI-2200 sporting the S-Logic technology, and have listened to some Prolines time ago. So I can safely say that I know a bit how S-Logic affects sound.

IMHO the S-Logic, as Sovkiller states, does nothing -at least it shouldn't do- to timbric character, resolution and many other sonic features. It's just a design decision trying to make sound more in front instead of into your head, and it's nothing more than placing the drivers a bit more advanced and below the entrance of your ear canals. How good it is making sound more in front of you, is up to your own judgement and comparison terms. In my experience it doesn't get any more outside my head than the HD600, K701, D5000 or DX-1000. It has some more depth than some, and less than others. Crossfeed is a very different animal. What I find true is that it can sound weird at first, but once you get accostumed, it was a few minutes for me, you don't notice much difference to other phones.

What Ultrasone does, which in my opinion screws up dynamics and makes for a strange presentation on well known recordings, is adding some circuits -I believe they're diodes- into the headphones to protect drivers from overloading. This could be what Sacd lover found strange in his listening to Ultrasones, specially if you try to listen aloud, but at sensible levels, which I mostly use, you don't notice it very much.

FWIW I can accept that for Sovkiller and many other members owning or knowing well the Ed9, think they're the most enjoyable cans they've listened to, but that doesn't mean they're the very best on the face of Earth, not even the most accurate or balanced in measurable terms. Personal taste and system overall sound is paramount here, and we all have to accept and respect the judgement and taste of our mates. As far as I know there's not a single HP that has a global acceptation as the best and only one worth owning. So take your poison.

As for now, I find my modded D5000, once they've gone through their 250 burn-in mark, to be a very delightful surprise. I had read Markl's previous reviews about other phones and pieces of kit, and regarding his opinion on known to me devices, I thought I could trust his judgement about the D5000 and the results of the mods. At first I felt a bit deceived because the new cans, despite the mods, didn't sound as I was expecting by a large margin. But now... well, I won't go as far as he did saying they sound like the R10 with more and better bass, because IMHO they don't, but all things considered, specially the price and availability, the modded D5000 are very serious cans which could provide a helluva fun and good sound to anyone "tuned" into its character. They're mainly resolving, balanced, quite neutral and opened to meet very demanding needs as I think my own ones are.

I can't say if I'd like better the D5000 or the Ed9 since I don't know the latter, but I'm sure the Ed9 should be really good, at least as good as being able to rival R10 or good electrostats, to have me liking them as much as I like the D5000. When I manage to listen to a pair of Ed.9, I'll say

Regards

 

[vvs_75]

Quote:

Originally Posted by waddragon /img/forum/go_quote.gif yup I know that. However, I can say that modded d5000 is on the same level of sound quality as edition 9.

No question. Properly moded D5000 are really good. They have pluses and minuses over stock Edt.9. Moded Edt.9 it’s another story .

 

[Jap]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vvs_75 /img/forum/go_quote.gif No question. Properly moded D5000 are really good. They have pluses and minuses over stock Edt.9. Moded Edt.9 it’s another story .

[size=medium]
I wonder what an Ed9 modded with an APureSound V3 cable would sound like?

[/size]

 

[zanimation]

Interesting comparison of the Markl D5000 against the Ed9

But I'm still waiting for a detailed comparison of the Markl D5000 against the ATH-AD2000.

 

[waddragon]

where can we mod the edition 9? and what is the mod?
thanks

 

[Jap]

Quote:

Originally Posted by waddragon /img/forum/go_quote.gif where can we mod the edition 9? and what is the mod? thanks

[size=medium]
APureSound - Where The Music Is Always Pure[/size]

 

[waddragon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zanimation /img/forum/go_quote.gif Interesting comparison of the Markl D5000 against the Ed9 But I'm still waiting for a detailed comparison of the Markl D5000 against the ATH-AD2000.

i don't know about ad2000 but the phone gains a good reputation on the forum. Right now there is a sale for a used ad2000 (390$) on the For Sale section. You can buy and try it. If you don't like it, you can resell without many loss

 

[waddragon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jap /img/forum/go_quote.gif [size=medium] APureSound - Where The Music Is Always Pure[/size]

I think apuresound only recables the edition 9 , right?
do we have other kind of mod besides recabling?
which cables is the best for edition 9?
thanks