[Arlekiin]

Hello, 
 
So I got myself a Marantz PM-75  amplifier which has a DAC inside. My source is my pc with asus xonar d2 pm and I use an RCA cable to pass difital signal to the Marantz.
I discovered the analogue signal (from the 3.5mm stereo jack) to be way more noisy, by noisy I mean when I turn the amp up when no sound no signal is passed I get a humm with 
analogue but when using digital its quieter at max volume. 
 
My question is, now that I have tried an external dac I would like to know if somebody knows about this dac and how it compares to modern ones it can only do 24bit 48khz while my xonar 
is capable of passing 24/192khz signal which I cant use because Marantz cant process that much. Since the sound is that much more pure using external DAC im wondering if I should invest in a dedicated DAC or is the DAC TDA1541A enough? 
 
I feel that there is some room for improvement but have no idea where this DAC is in terms of quality and if I should aim for external dedicated dac at what pricepoint I should aim.  Also Im using Canton SC5 speakers which are not top of the line but are pretty good.
 
Thank you for the advice,

 

[project86]

I don't know anything about this particular Marantz product. But I have heard a ton of older Marantz gear, and none of it was terrible. Sure this unit doesn't quite qualify as "vintage" yet, but it still seems like a solid example of the quality Marantz is known for.
 
Most importantly: How do you like the sound? That's really all that matters. I doubt you could improve things much until you spent at least a few hundred dollars on an external DAC.
 
I also can't find any info about the Canton SC5, can you post more about them? New speakers might be a more impactful upgrade, but we need to know more about them first.

 

[Arlekiin]

Cannot find any info on the web either but canton is a proper HiFi company from germany and they are ok speakers but this model is discontinued I got them from a friend who imported them for me from Germany and I payed $350 USD for them.
I dont remember all the specs from the top of my head at the moment but i might crawl behind them later to see what the specs where. If anything i would like to go heavyweight and get myself some deep heavy speakers that can do good bass. SC5's excel in mid/highs and even the bass is not bad but I would like to get some more bass presence and I do not like subwoofers.
 
If I wanted to step up from them i would need to go $1000 USD range per pair which i intend to do soon.
 
P.S Il lpost some pictures soon...

 

[JulioCat2]

 
Quote:

 if I should invest in a dedicated DAC or is the DAC TDA1541A enough? 
 

The TDA1541A is an extraordinary DAC with a ton of followers, there are several threads in DIYAudio of several miles long about it
 
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/79452-building-ultimate-nos-dac-using-tda1541a.html
 
If you are not into hidef audio files it's ok, CD are 44.1 Khz and DVD are 48 Khz and you can always downsample the 88.2, 96, etc
 
Sorry for the crappy photo, this i my DIY TDA1541A project
 

 

[Arlekiin]

Speaker/s and amp can be seen here.
 
http://www.dropbox.com/gallery/8166977/1/Audio%20equipment?h=6d6011

 

[Arlekiin]

Thank you for the link ill check it out.
 
Quote:

 


The TDA1541A is an extraordinary DAC with a ton of followers, there are several threads in DIYAudio of several miles long about it
 
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/79452-building-ultimate-nos-dac-using-tda1541a.html
 
If you are not into hidef audio files it's ok, CD are 44.1 Khz and DVD are 48 Khz and you can always downsample the 88.2, 96, etc

 

[Arlekiin]

Im only just now entering the DAC market and I thought that external dac's are overkill but it seems that i will be eating my words....
Nice DIY project you have there...

 

[project86]

OK I found a tiny bit of into on your speakers. Seems they are from the mid 90s or so, and are quite decent. If you are happy with the sound, you should just stick with the Marantz/Canton combo that you have. If you want to monkey around with a DAC, find a place where you can return easily, or else buy a popular DAC from the forums here that can easily be resold without a hassle if you don't like it.
 
I still think you won't be able to get a significant upgrade without spending a good chunk of cash. Most $200 DACs are good but not great, and at best will probably just sound different but not better than your Marantz.

 

[Arlekiin]

Ok that was a useful piece of information I think I will upgrade my speakers first to something more massive (just because I want to im not sure i really need to) and only after that see what I can do with my DAC. Probably gonna upgrade my headphone amp/phones before DAC aswell. 
Anyways in the future I will look into DAC's but I think i wont bother with ~200$ ones and get one that really rocks out (if i get to try it that is ).
 
Thank you,
 
Quote:

OK I found a tiny bit of into on your speakers. Seems they are from the mid 90s or so, and are quite decent. If you are happy with the sound, you should just stick with the Marantz/Canton combo that you have. If you want to monkey around with a DAC, find a place where you can return easily, or else buy a popular DAC from the forums here that can easily be resold without a hassle if you don't like it.
 
I still think you won't be able to get a significant upgrade without spending a good chunk of cash. Most $200 DACs are good but not great, and at best will probably just sound different but not better than your Marantz.

 

[project86]

From the pics on your speakers, it appears they have dual 165mm drivers. Does that sound right? If so, that could explain why the bass is good but not excellent. You might look for a classic old school speaker with a bigger driver. I don't know what is available in your area, but around here it is not too difficult to find some big Sansui, Altec, JBL, Advent, Acoustic Research, etc. for a decent price. Here is a link for some ideas:
 
http://www.oaktreevintage.com/Stereo_Speakers.htm

 

[omfg]

I've got a Marantz PM-75.
 
I was quite pleased when I picked one up on eBay about 3 years ago.
A flashy hi-fi store in the city had one of these as their flagship amp when I was a kid.  The idea of using an optical cable to connect the cd-player to the amp blew me away back in 1990 (when I was 9 years old).
 
I've been using it for the past few years to drive a pair of Dynaudio Audience 42s speakers.  It's done the job quite well.
 
A couple of weeks backs, I've 'upgraded' to a newer amp, an Onkyo NR807 which I'm also running an optical connection to.  
 
The 807 has a 24bit/192khz Burr Brown DAC, and advertises similar power-output ratings.  As for the sound of the new amp... well, if switched to 'Stereo' mode as it calls is, it sounds shrill and digital.  Running on a direct mode with no DSP, it sounds clinical and precise.  Impressive for detail, but not particularly flattering to most recordings in my varied collection.  I can't say whether I prefer the Burr Brown to the TDA1541, but it's clearly a more accurate DAC to my humble ears.
 
I'm actually tempted to set the PM75 back up again for a bit of a sound-off.
 
 
I don't know quite what else to say with regards to that amp.  A good amp from 1989 obviously can't compete with a good amp from today, but I'm guessing you only paid a couple of hundred bucks for it like I did, so it's really pretty good value compared with anything you'd get on the more recent used market at the same price-point.
 
The DAC is old, but it'll happily do 44.1khz at 16bit resolution, which is almost certainly what most of your music is recorded in anyway - and as others have pointed out, the TDA1541 has picked up something of a cult status for being a particularly good DAC.
 
The only reason I looked to get a new amp was due to watching more HT content and finding 44.1/48khz stereo to be increasingly restrictive.

 

[Arlekiin]

@ OMG
 
Oh that was very informative. Well It actually says it can do 24bit 48Khz. I would like to be able to feed it 24/192 but as I read actually 192 is science fiction and mostly useless as DVD's use 48Khz. 
I have a pair of HD 650's on the way to replace my HD 595's and Im thinking if I should upgrade my DAC before my amp or get the AMP first. At the moment I have a morgan jones DIY amp but I want to get WooAudio 6/SE. 
As for the DAC I have Xonar D2/PM soundcard that can do 24/192 and is supposedly bretty good for a soundcard but I found the Marantz to be abit cleaner but Asus had better dynamics or at least it felt like it.
 
I will check out the Onkyo you mentioned...oh and I payed a hefty 500 USD for my Marantz.

 

[omfg]

Hey Arlekiin,
 
I don't think that this thing can take a 24bit 48khz signal as such, but it might do various oversampling techniques on the signal.
To be honest, I'm not normally a headphone guy, so this probably isn't the right forum for me, but I'm generally down with some of this technology.
 
I wouldn't recommend spending much money upgrading your DAC from 48/16 > 192/24.  Unless you have a large collection of HD audio content (which I doubt), you're going to see very little benefit compared with, say, changing the speakers/headphones.  In fact, arguably, even if you do have a large collection of HD content, you're unlikely to hear much of a difference.
 
With soundcards... I've said on forums before and got shot down in flames: the inside of a computer is probably the very last place I'd want precise D/A conversions taking place.  The power supply, earth rails, etc. are all very electrically noisy.  I'm sure it can be insulated against to a point - but I wouldn't bother.  Just use the optical or SPDIF connector to an outboard DAC for the D/A conversion.  
 
Your experience with the Xonar D2/PM's DAC vs. the TDA1541a is fairly typical of my DAC sound-offs.  They usually sound 'different', but am often left wondering which I prefer.
 
 
What to upgrade next?  Hard to say really.  I think you can get a much better amplifier than the PM-75, especially if you only need relatively low-power to drive headphones.
Personally, I'm a very big fan of Musical Fidelity gear.  So if you had the coin, I'd look in to something like the M1-HPA.  If you've got a good local music store they might let you demo one for a while.

 

[SP Wild]

The TDA1541 is a highly sought after DAC in vintage components - you can sell it on ebay like that, and command a 3Xpremium over other products manufactured in the same era.  I was watching a Rotel CD player that had this same DAC...it went for 3X more than other CD players in that era.
 
Do any of you guys have this amp with Australian 240v voltages, if so drop me a PM and we shall discuss.

 

[omfg]

Now I've finally had a chance to do the sound-off between the two systems:  PM75 and Onkyo NR807, which from a DAC point of view makes this a TDA-1541a and Burr Brown PCM1690 comparison.
 
I'm using an Airport Express to provide a Toslink connection to each amp, streaming a variety of lossless music.  Norah Jones - Come Away with Me probably being my main test piece, as it's so well mastered.
 
In quick summary:  The PCM1690 sounds better - slightly more neutral and precise to my ears.  I'm taking back my original comment of excessive precision.
 
I've spent the last hour reading various raving reviews of the tda1541a and the multi-bit DACs goodness, but honestly, the sound from the PM-75 doesn't sound as good to me.  Most of the issue is at the top-end, where it sounds slightly digital, as if a DSP is running (I'm running Source Direct with Loudness turned off).  Maybe this is due to oversampling?  I'm not sure.
 
I can't find a piece of music where it outperforms the 807.
The Onkyo is not really what I'd call a high-end amp either.  It's sits around the $1k usd mark.
 
If you were able to build yourself custom rigs with high-end OP amps, tda1541 S2 chips, and really knew what you were doing, then sure, I guess you could get fantastic results.
Otherwise, I think that you're better off buying a well-regarded modern system.
 
 
One thing I do like about the PM-75 - the Loudness button.  Of course, it does nothing to the natural reproduction of the music, but it sure does sound good.