[Tuberoller]

When I saw the DV8300, Marantz's first attempt at a universal(DVD-A,SACD,CD,DVD)player, I was encouraged and eager to audition it.When I finally got an opportunity to hear it in my system I was shocked and amazed at how Marantz could have gotten this player so wrong.It sounded bad in all formats and was a big step in the wrong direction.The Marantz rep explained that the delay in issueing demo units was due to a replacement model in the pipeline.He admitted to some "sonic flaws" with the DV8300 and promised a completely new unit was soon to follow.He was a bit bummed that I had such harsh words for the DV8300 but said he was not suprised.

The DV8400 represents a complete redesign of the DV8300 and I was assured that they share few parts.The new player has been redesigned all the way to the transport.Even the remote is new.I earlier had suspicions that the DV8400 was a mere circuit tweak but as soon as I saw and held it I knew it was not the same player.A look under the hood shows a new unit in almost every way.The rep says the model number step was done to offer the perception that the 8400 is a different player than the 8300 and is meant to replace it in the line-up.Makes sense to me.

I'm glad somebody at Marantz is still awake.The last few players I have heard from them have been terrible.The DV8300 was the worst example.The SA-14 was not far behind.The DV8400 is proof that Marantz is back on track.The fact that it was bought to market so soon after the 8300 seems further proof that Marantz is intent on getting things back on track.The DV8400 is the best digital I have heard from Marantz and it is easily the best universal player I have heard.This and the Yamaha SD2300 are the first really good universal players.The Marantz is better in a few key areas.Bass is tight and full with all discs.The treble is fantastic in all formats and DVD-A finally sounds realistic to me.Redbook playback is the best Marantz has ever done and will not dissappoint many.Marantz felt the need to lower the price by $100 to $1495.00 and that price drop is welcomed and needed in a soon to be crowed market of universal players.The new Denon is said to be a genuine giant-killer and the Integra has won over most who have heard it.News that Harmon-Kardon and NAD will soon release universal players is welcome.The DV8400 is Marantz's effort to right the wrong of the DV8300 and they have done a good job.The DV8400 is in stores now and most dealers have stock as Marantz sent out large shipments last friday.I'm going to buy one of these players soon but I'm waiting to see what hits the market.I really want a player that does it all very well and the Marantz DV8400 is a solid contender.

I end this by spewing my ever-frequent warning: It's down right foolish to spend big bucks( more than $1500) on Digital right now.Digital rigs are getting better every day and a high-dollar player is the absolute worst investment you can make right now.Today's state of the art is next week's mid-fi.

 

[Noesis]

I have yet to be impressed with a Marantz product. I have heard some ok products that were overpriced, and some overpriced extremely bad ones (which you mentioned).

I have not yet auditioned a 8400, but I plan on it now that I read your review (when I heard the 8300 I proclaimed I would not bother to audition the next, my salesman agreed). I'm curious now, thank you!

Ironically, I have heard many CD players outperform SACD players (see: Meridian, Musical Fidelity among others) and a myriad of SACD players sound good while playing a SACD and then sound poor (for the pricepoint) when playing a CD.

Quote:

I end this by spewing my ever-frequent warning: It's down right foolish to spend big bucks( more than $1500) on Digital right now.Digital rigs are getting better every day and a high-dollar player is the absolute worst investment you can make right now.Today's state of the art is next week's mid-fi.

I'm in complete agreement. I have not yet decided on an expensive CD player. It's just a poor investment. My next CD player will be a SACD player, but I have yet to decide on which. I don't think I'm prepared for a SACD player either, as I think in the upcoming years there will be a strong improvement. in quality and pricepoints.

Thanks for the review,
-Chad

 

[john_jcb]

Tuberoller,

Did you get a chance to compare the DVD performance. I had a chance to compare the 8300 with the Philips 963SA and the Philips player had a better picture.

 

[Tuberoller]

I just watched Pleasantville with the DV8400 and had a chance to compare the pic directly with the Philips 963SA.The Philips has a sharper picture in every way.I'm not a big HT fan but I can clearly see that the 963 is the best DVD player I have seen.


I'm really dying for a universal player to be better in every way than the Philips.I'm sure something will come along but fear it will not be cheap.The DV8400 is a very good player and shows what universal players are capable of.I only see them getting better.

 

[john_jcb]

From what I have read the Ferugda (sp) processor employed in the 963SA is really the best out there. I watched it on a very high quality 100" projection setup and the differences in picture quality between it and the 8300 were easy to pick out. I wonder if the universal payers will ever match the ones dedicated to a single format?

 

[Tuberoller]

The Marantz rep is a really nice guy and always offers me gear to audition.Marantz USA is based near Chicago and the rep lives in the city.He gave me two CD Changers to try out(one of which I think is a prototype) and they both sound great.I have to talk with him and make sure I can spill the beans.Marantz is really working hard to maintain market share and a strikeout like the DV8300 was a huge mistake.It's great to see that they listen and are making strong efforts to improve the products.

 

[Nightfall]

Fred,


Where would you rate the redbook playback of the Marantz as compared to the 963? And the SACD playback? Thanks


JC

 

[Czilla9000]

nightfall - You asked what I was just going to ask

.

So Tuberoller....

Does the player (8400) look as beautiful as it does on Marantz's site? The DVI ouput is also interesting,


That, and anyone tryed Marantz's dedicated player- The SA8260?

 

[Noesis]

Quote:

Originally posted by Tuberoller The Marantz rep is a really nice guy and always offers me gear to audition.Marantz USA is based near Chicago and the rep lives in the city.He gave me two CD Changers to try out(one of which I think is a prototype) and they both sound great.I have to talk with him and make sure I can spill the beans.Marantz is really working hard to maintain market share and a strikeout like the DV8300 was a huge mistake.It's great to see that they listen and are making strong efforts to improve the products.

Do you work for a magazine? The rep sends you demo gear directly? I have to go to a showroom (Which makes demoing hard, heh)... I'm just a hobbiest.

My experiance with Marantz, however, is that they have made a number of poor products. I think they need to get their design crew into shape. Denon, Pioneer, Sony...all the other big guys are wailing on them in terms of quality of their higher end products.

-Chad

 

[Tuberoller]

Quote:

Originally posted by Noesis Do you work for a magazine? The rep sends you demo gear directly? I have to go to a showroom (Which makes demoing hard, heh)... I'm just a hobbiest. My experiance with Marantz, however, is that they have made a number of poor products. I think they need to get their design crew into shape. Denon, Pioneer, Sony...all the other big guys are wailing on them in terms of quality of their higher end products. -Chad

Nope,I'm not with a magazine but I do attend all the shows and meetings that I can.I meet these guys at trade shows(CES,HES and CEDIA) and get along with most of them well.The Marantz rep actually drops gear off at my house and usually hangs around to listen to music.I am sure,from extensive conversations,that most reps despise magazine guys.I have heard reps talk about the demands made by critics and editors for free gear,big discounts and other "perks". I have witnessed a bunch myself but I'm not in this hobby for that.I think most reps view guys like me as serious fans and enthusiasts and recognize that we are valuable in numerous ways.As the credibility of the more famous critics lessens daily, people like you and me become more important to the reps to get the word out.I get some deals from the reps myself but usually in exchange for finding records for them or giving them records from my collection.Try to attend some of the trade shows,especially if you are ready to pull the trigger on a new gear purchase,the trip could more than pay for itself.

Marantz really has been building some bad digital gear recently.The SA-14 was a prime example.The DV8300 was pretty much the worst I modern hi-fi CDP I had heard.I think they have made some changes and the sound of the gear I am hearing now reflects that.They still have a ways to go but they are certainly on track.

 

[Budrew]

Tuberoller, I've read some of your negative comments about Marantz CD players in past postings and this posting. I'm fairly new the Head-Fi, but I've been involved with Audiogon and Audio Asylum for a long time and over there the Marantz players are highly regarded. I have the SA8260 and the SA-14 and enjoy them both. Redbook is not perfect, but comparable to other SACD players, and beats the Sony on redbook (I also have a modified SCD-C222ES -- I'll soon be having fire sale on CDPs). The Jolida JD-100 beats the SA-14 on redbook. I'm also going to try out a Quad CD-P. But on SACD both Marantz's are great! My opinion is that unfortunately for now the best option is to have two players, one redbook and one SACD, or use an external DAC. The higher end SACD players which excel at both formats, like the Lindemann or the Meitner, are simply too expensive (for me anyway).

I disagree with your comment that any CD player over $1500 is a bad decision. There are some great players out there, Electrocompaniet, Ayre, Audio Aero, etc, that are tremendously pleasing to the ears and will provide many years of listening enjoyment. That said, a bit of research and demo'ing can lead to some real gems at reasonable prices. Fortunately, the audio benefits of high-end CDPs does seem to be trickling down to lower-priced units. It might be argued that today $3000 is the price point at which you have to really ask yourself is it really worth it.

 

[markl]

Very interesting, thanks tuberoller.

Very interesting that almost instantly the 8300 was taken off market. Where did they get this brand new 8400 model from to do a quick presto-chango into a unit that sounds completely different? It's unlikely they were able to design/prototype/create a whole new player in such a short time, test it, build it and ship it. I think there are two possibilities:

1. The 8400 is a minor upgrade with few differences from the 8300. Marantz fixed a few small bugs, changed a few components, but no major overhaul.

2. This "new" Marantz 8400 is really the new Denon universal player in disguise. I wonder how different the $1000 Denon universal player (model #?) is on the inside from the new Marantz 8400? Now that Marantz/Denon are one, I'd say this was a distinct possibility, or at least they share a number of the same critical components.

Tube, any insights here?

Mark

 

[Czilla9000]

Budrew, do you like the SA8260 - would you recommend it?

 

[Tuberoller]

Quote:

Originally posted by Budrew Tuberoller, I've read some of your negative comments about Marantz CD players in past postings and this posting. I'm fairly new the Head-Fi, but I've been involved with Audiogon and Audio Asylum for a long time and over there the Marantz players are highly regarded. I have the SA8260 and the SA-14 and enjoy them both. Redbook is not perfect, but comparable to other SACD players, and beats the Sony on redbook (I also have a modified SCD-C222ES -- I'll soon be having fire sale on CDPs). The Jolida JD-100 beats the SA-14 on redbook. I'm also going to try out a Quad CD-P. But on SACD both Marantz's are great! My opinion is that unfortunately for now the best option is to have two players, one redbook and one SACD, or use an external DAC. The higher end SACD players which excel at both formats, like the Lindemann or the Meitner, are simply too expensive (for me anyway). I disagree with your comment that any CD player over $1500 is a bad decision. There are some great players out there, Electrocompaniet, Ayre, Audio Aero, etc, that are tremendously pleasing to the ears and will provide many years of listening enjoyment. That said, a bit of research and demo'ing can lead to some real gems at reasonable prices. Fortunately, the audio benefits of high-end CDPs does seem to be trickling down to lower-priced units. It might be argued that today $3000 is the price point at which you have to really ask yourself is it really worth it.

My negative comments are based on extensive auditioning of many,many different CDPs and SACD players.I owned an SA-14 and have auditioned every Marantz SACD and CDP that they have produced in the last three years.For the money,the performance of the recent Marantz units is only fair.I really don't like the Marantz SACD players and the rep does'nt seem insulted when I state my opinions.I think Marantz realizes that changes must be made to keep up and improve their products.The SA-14 was a big seller until the word got out about it's perfromance.So was the DV8300.I fell for the hype on Audiogon and bought the SA-14 myself.It was the very first SACD player I owned.Then I got the $200 Sony DVP500V and tried the Philips SACD1000 and witnessed the Marantz get spanked.The Marantz players benefitted from being among the first to offer SACD playback at a reasonable price.They were not and are not among the best.

I'll say it again.BUY A BIG BUCKS DIGITAL RIG AT YOUR OWN RISK .I'm not trying to be mean about it.Look at the speed at which digital audio is advancing.How long did it take for Marantz to replace the DV8300 with an improved,less expensive model?Roksan,NAD,Arcam,Harmon Kardon,Denon,Creek,Musichall, and many other digital maufacturers are introducing new players that will feature improvements such as upsampling and SACD playback that will cost the same or less than previous models they are replacing.How would you feel if you bought the latest $2300 Creek CDP only to have it replaced by a better player less than a year later and it's priced at $1800.How about the Musichall player that will feature upsampling and HDCD and only cost $100 more than the MMF-CD25.Go out and buy a $3500 Revox and pay $2500 for the upsampling and power supply upgrades only to have them intro a new player that features both for the same $3500 as the previous model.Why would you pay more than $1500 for a digital rig when you absolutely,postively Know that something better and cheaper is gonna be coming the next day?Do you even remember what the hot player was two years ago?Do you remember what the hot player was last year?I suggest you buy something you like,stay away from the audio boards(which only serve to feed upgraditis) and enjoy whatever rig you decided on.I offer no insults here.I'm among friends and I only state that which I believe to be true.

 

[pigmode]

Quote:

I'll say it again.BUY A BIG BUCKS DIGITAL RIG AT YOUR OWN RISK

I'll have to disagree with that.

It all depends on what a person is looking for, and the equipment set downstream from the cdp. My main rig (Shigaraki DAC/ Rega Planet 2000) is to my taste, head and shoulders above the Phillips 963, but then that is an unfair comparison. I have every expectation that when upgraded to the Shigaraki transport, there will be another leap forward in sound quality.

I'm not saying that the more money spent automatically buys better sound.

What you often, and should get from a more expensive unit is a substantially beefier chassis, a more sophisticated power scheme (w/ more than one power supply), and an improved output/ DAC design. Properly implemented, these elements can bring a level of sonic refinement that I just cannot believe is possible in these budget players.