[mbhaub]

Re: Zender. I didn't know Zender had a Mahler 7th. Did I miss out? While I greatly admire his analysis of the symphonies (M9 is particularly insightful), none of the Telarc recordings I have ever really catch fire. Is he too reticent? Is the orchestra just not capable? Does he over analyze? I don't know, but I just don't think his recordings are top contenders.

Abbado: In general I really enjoy his Mahler. Not as controlled and cool as Boulez, but played with real panache but never distasteful, bombastic or vulgar. And Mahler needs those things from time to time. Still, his earlier M3 with the Vienna Phil is one of my favorites -- and I still play the LP version. His M2 is just too polite. But the rest were fine, too. I caught Abbado live with Vienna at Carnegie Hall years ago doing M1 and all I can saw is WOW! Knocked my socks off. It's been almost 20 years since that concert and I still remember the goosebumps and lump in the throat. Sensational. Of course, he was younger and healthier then.

There are some other Mahler cycles going on, mostly from Germany, in SACD. But so far none of them are getting rave reviews. Has anyone heard any entry from Bamberg with Jonathan Nott?

 

[Bunnyears]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbhaub /img/forum/go_quote.gif Re: Zender. I didn't know Zender had a Mahler 7th. Did I miss out? While I greatly admire his analysis of the symphonies (M9 is particularly insightful), none of the Telarc recordings I have ever really catch fire. Is he too reticent? Is the orchestra just not capable? Does he over analyze? I don't know, but I just don't think his recordings are top contenders. Abbado: In general I really enjoy his Mahler. Not as controlled and cool as Boulez, but played with real panache but never distasteful, bombastic or vulgar. And Mahler needs those things from time to time. Still, his earlier M3 with the Vienna Phil is one of my favorites -- and I still play the LP version. His M2 is just too polite. But the rest were fine, too. I caught Abbado live with Vienna at Carnegie Hall years ago doing M1 and all I can saw is WOW! Knocked my socks off. It's been almost 20 years since that concert and I still remember the goosebumps and lump in the throat. Sensational. Of course, he was younger and healthier then. There are some other Mahler cycles going on, mostly from Germany, in SACD. But so far none of them are getting rave reviews. Has anyone heard any entry from Bamberg with Jonathan Nott?

I think you have confused Hans Zender who recorded for CPO with Ben Zander who has recorded for Telarc with all of those lectures included. I am referring to Hans Zender's recording of the 7th, which is excellent on the CPO label. I don't care very much for anything Zander has done, he talks much better than he conducts. Btw Zender also has recordings on CPO of the 6th and 9th, both of which are also quite good, if not as good as the 7th.

Edit: Re Zander -- I've learned a bit about Zander from a horn player who played in his orchestra. From the little he said about it, I gathered that playing for him was not a rewarding experience. Perhaps his musicians just can't give their all for him.

 

[keithdn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbhaub /img/forum/go_quote.gif Abbado: In general I really enjoy his Mahler. Not as controlled and cool as Boulez, but played with real panache but never distasteful, bombastic or vulgar. And Mahler needs those things from time to time. Still, his earlier M3 with the Vienna Phil is one of my favorites -- and I still play the LP version. His M2 is just too polite. But the rest were fine, too. I caught Abbado live with Vienna at Carnegie Hall years ago doing M1 and all I can saw is WOW! Knocked my socks off. It's been almost 20 years since that concert and I still remember the goosebumps and lump in the throat. Sensational. Of course, he was younger and healthier then.

I too enjoy Abbado; you said it correctly: "panache." He has a remarkable recording of M5 (live), even better than Bernstein's recording with Vienna Philharmonic. I do, however, envy you to see Abbado perform Mahler in concert! I only get to see Osmo Vanska (Minnesota Orchestra) and only one time Mahler (M2). It was quite good, but I don't think Vanska is really a Mahler conductor. (if that makes sense..)

 

[mbhaub]

Zender...Zander...must be old age. Yes, I do have the ZENDER, and it's ok. Actually I wish ZANDER would at least give us an analysis, but now that Telarc isn't making anymore classical we'll probably never get it.

Keithdn: you get Vanska/Minnesota! Holy smokes, most people can only imagine having it that good. I love the sound of the hall, the playing of the orchestra. But it's a long trip. Vanska isn't a romantic however. The problem with his Sibelius 1 & 2 is that those are very romantic and he's not. But still, I'd love to be able to hear him regulalry.

 

[Bunnyears]

Quote:

Originally Posted by keithdn /img/forum/go_quote.gif I too enjoy Abbado; you said it correctly: "panache." He has a remarkable recording of M5 (live), even better than Bernstein's recording with Vienna Philharmonic. I do, however, envy you to see Abbado perform Mahler in concert! I only get to see Osmo Vanska (Minnesota Orchestra) and only one time Mahler (M2). It was quite good, but I don't think Vanska is really a Mahler conductor. (if that makes sense..)

"only get to see Osmo Vanska"? I saw him conducting the Minnesota Orchestra at Carnegie Hall (Beethoven 5th and Sibelius 4th program) and I think he did an amazing job with both. Back in 2007 when the NYPO was languishing in Avery Fischer Hall (horrid, horrid, hall) with indifferent leadership I envied Minnesota with its dynamic musical director who compelled them to play in a way "knowledgeable" critics described as "above their level." There is nothing negligible about Vanska and the Minnesota Symphony orchestra has always been capable of great musicianship.

 

[Bunnyears]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbhaub /img/forum/go_quote.gif Zender...Zander...must be old age. Yes, I do have the ZENDER, and it's ok. Actually I wish ZANDER would at least give us an analysis, but now that Telarc isn't making anymore classical we'll probably never get it. Keithdn: you get Vanska/Minnesota! Holy smokes, most people can only imagine having it that good. I love the sound of the hall, the playing of the orchestra. But it's a long trip. Vanska isn't a romantic however. The problem with his Sibelius 1 & 2 is that those are very romantic and he's not. But still, I'd love to be able to hear him regulalry.

I think his 7th is a bit better than okay, but it is cool Mahler, not fiery Mahler.

I don't care for any of Zander's Mahler. If his talks show insight, then it just goes to prove the old adage: Those that can do. Those that can't teach.

 

[keithdn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunnyears /img/forum/go_quote.gif "only get to see Osmo Vanska"? I saw him conducting the Minnesota Orchestra at Carnegie Hall (Beethoven 5th and Sibelius 4th program) and I think he did an amazing job with both. Back in 2007 when the NYPO was languishing in Avery Fischer Hall (horrid, horrid, hall) with indifferent leadership I envied Minnesota with its dynamic musical director who compelled them to play in a way "knowledgeable" critics described as "above their level." There is nothing negligible about Vanska and the Minnesota Symphony orchestra has always been capable of great musicianship.

Yes, you are quite right: my choice of words there was terrible! I do like Vanska a lot, especially his Beethoven. But you must realize, good as he is with the Minnesota orchestra, it's all I get to see. I don't live near Carnegie Hall where so many come to play; it's just Minnesota Orchestra over and over again (and over..)

I do admit though, I'm lucky to be "stuck" with such talent!

 

[scottder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by radiohlite /img/forum/go_quote.gif just heard the Walter M9 from '61. Wow. I think it's now my favorite after the Bernstein/RCO and Inbal.

Is this M9 still in print anywhere?

Scott

 

[mbhaub]

I guess you don't want that 13-disk original jackets set of Walter? It does have all the Columbia/Sony Mahler, but it sure is pricey. I'd watch Ebay.

 

[radiohlite]

yeah, you can probably find a good used copy of it.

BTW: I recently heard an old mono 9th with Kletzki and the Israel PO, and i liked it very much. Not a 'top choice', but it has very good things in its favor.

 

[scottder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by radiohlite /img/forum/go_quote.gif yeah, you can probably find a good used copy of it. BTW: I recently heard an old mono 9th with Kletzki and the Israel PO, and i liked it very much. Not a 'top choice', but it has very good things in its favor.

I have heard Kletzki as well on the M9, trying to recall details, it's been a while so I may need to dig that out.

Scott

 

[rasmushorn]

The March 2010 issue of Gramophone has a special feature on Mahler and his symphonies:

Browse By Issue - Gramophone Archive

It also has recommendations on recordings for each symphony.

 

[nealric]

A question for the Mahler fans out there:

With all the love for Mahler on head-fi, I decided to go out and give some of the symphonies a listen (9th, 3rd, 8th) - and I'm just not feeling it. The music doesn't draw me in. It feels bombastic, but I'm not emotionally connecting to it. Was Mahler an immediate love for you guys, or more of an acquired taste?

 

[Lex2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nealric /img/forum/go_quote.gif A question for the Mahler fans out there: With all the love for Mahler on head-fi, I decided to go out and give some of the symphonies a listen (9th, 3rd, 8th) - and I'm just not feeling it. The music doesn't draw me in. It feels bombastic, but I'm not emotionally connecting to it. Was Mahler an immediate love for you guys, or more of an acquired taste?

It's more of an acquired taste for me. But you may want to try listening to his more "accessible" symphonies first, such as the 1st or 4th. But yes, the music is bombastic and you're not alone in thinking that. But that is OK, I could never understand the 3rd, 8th, and 9th either. Most days I just listen to the 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 5th, with small doses of 6th and 7th.

 

[mbhaub]

I sampled my first Mahler symphony (no. 2) at age 12. I know this because I was a volunteer at the local library and this lady came in one day to return it and told me it was just stunning and I should try it. I did, and I didn't like it. Made no sense at all. Then I tried no.1 -- same reaction. Then that lady came back returning the 7th of all things. This time love was instant. I couldn't get enough of that (Bernstein, NY) and checked it out repeatedly. Then a few years went on, and I started buying the symphonies one by one, and by the time I left high school I was a firmly entrenched Mahlerite. Couldn't get enough of it. Not then, not now. My allegiance and love for that music has never wavered. There's only one of Mahler's works that I just don't care for all that much: no. 8. So you could say my Mahler appreciation took a while to grab hold. But, I can understand why some people just don't care for it. Some people love Mozart, I despise it. I love Sibelius, too, and many people don't.

BTW: some of the recording choices in the Gramophone article are really, really debatable. (see the previous bizillion pages.)