[papy]

Hi DA,

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif That reviewer has my attention especially his appreciation of Bernstein/Sony M2 and its superiority over his later DG remake..........will have to get the Zinman M2 I suppose when it is relased domestically.

He sure seems enthusiastic about this new Zinman one !! Please let us know your thoughts when you get the M1 too !!


Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif Also will mention the sound quality of the Klemperer M2 was noticeably improved vs previous CD versions with the latest EMI GROTC relase you show above

I must say i am quite surprised (and pleasantly at that) by the SQ of the Klemperer, compared, say to Karajan's beethoven cycle of the same period (63, right ?)... The background hiss was only really a distraction on the choral part in the last movement...otherwise, the rest of the piece went through ok. I can live with that

For my impressions on the Klemperer, i'll leave it for a bit...the word that springs to mind is "more menacing" than the bertini's version (the only other M2 i have ...until the Zinman maybe

), but i'll give it another few listens before judging.

 

[eyeresist]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif That reviewer has my attention especially his appreciation of Bernstein/Sony M2 and its superiority over his later DG remake

I was slightly disturbed by the reviewer's refering to "the soothing balm of the ensuing ‘Urlicht’ " - yes, "Man lies in deepest pain", very soothing!


Papy, which edition of Karajan's 1963 Beethoven are you refering to? Reports of the recent SACD release have been very positive, whereas the 1990 box was famously crap. The 1999 release would be somewhere in the middle, I guess.

 

[papy]

Hi Eyerist

I have this version

Which Amazon advertises as the 1999 version, though i can't see any date on the booklet/Cds to confirm. I don't know about the other versions, but this one, for me, has a distracting hiss all along.

Papy

 

[eyeresist]

Thanks for the info, Papy.

 

[DarkAngel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by papy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Which Amazon advertises as the 1999 version, though i can't see any date on the booklet/Cds to confirm. I don't know about the other versions, but this one, for me, has a distracting hiss all along. Papy

I am not bothered by a small amount of ambient tape noise/hiss in the background on older recordings, usually means recording team has tried to preserve maximum music detail resolution..........if they get too agressive with noise reduction filtering almost certainly some fine detail will also be obscured.

Always a balancing act to get best sound recording with older masters, but my classical priority is not best sound quality and am pretty tolerant of minor imperfections and much more interested in the performance at hand

I have always preferred the 1977 Karajan Beethoven set to his 1963 set which the critics all seem to prefer. The 1977 set has a brisker tempo and more dramatic contrast overall especially in the outer movements.

 

[augustwest]

"Ok, I bit. The Zinman Mahler 1 arrived on Friday from Amazon. Here's my take:

This is not a heart-on-sleeve M1 like Bernstein. Nor is it turned into bombastic trash like too many performers. Instead, it is played as a symphony, romantic in spirit, with many exhilirating effects. It is played to the hilt. It's more like Kubelik than anything else."

Being like Kubelik is high praise indeed! As Kubelik is one of my top two favorite versions.


- augustwest

 

[papy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyeresist /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks for the info, Papy.

No problem

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am not bothered by a small amount of ambient tape noise/hiss in the background on older recordings, usually means recording team has tried to preserve maximum music detail resolution..........if they get too agressive with noise reduction filtering almost certainly some fine detail will also be obscured. Always a balancing act to get best sound recording with older masters, but my classical priority is not best sound quality and am pretty tolerant of minor imperfections and much more interested in the performance at hand I have always preferred the 1977 Karajan Beethoven set to his 1963 set which the critics all seem to prefer. The 1977 set has a brisker tempo and more dramatic contrast overall especially in the outer movements.

Fair enough, to each his own

..I listen to the classical mostly on headphones, so the hiss on the HvK is a bother to me..I can live with it on speakers, but with headphones it is more problematic...that's why i am planning another Beethoven boxset (like the zinman), because the SQ killed my enjoyment/discovery of it... once i focus on the hiss, i only hear it... maybe I AM the problem

Maybe i'll get used to it with time as I get more older recordings

 

[eyeresist]

Quote:

Originally Posted by papy /img/forum/go_quote.gif I listen to the classical mostly on headphones, so the hiss on the HvK is a bother to me..I can live with it on speakers, but with headphones it is more problematic...that's why i am planning another Beethoven boxset (like the zinman), because the SQ killed my enjoyment/discovery of it... once i focus on the hiss, i only hear it... maybe I AM the problem Maybe i'll get used to it with time as I get more older recordings

LOL - I've just been trying to listen to Furtwangler WW2-era Beethoven (M&A). Fortunately I am distracted from the hiss by the horrible distortion and constricted frequencies! Hard to believe these are the best possible transfers... Anyway, after this, I'm looking forward to a little low-level hiss as some light relief.

 

[DarkAngel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbhaub /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ok, I bit. The Zinman Mahler 1 arrived on Friday from Amazon. Here's my take: The sound is truly impressive. Detailed, clear, full. No sense of constraint or overloading. THe quiet introduction is breathtaking. I haven't tried it with headphones yet. Performance: clear-headed, restrained, very classical. This is not a heart-on-sleeve M1 like Bernstein. Nor is it turned into bombastic trash like too many performers. Instead, it is played as a symphony, romantic in spirit, with many exhilirating effects. It is played to the hilt. It's more like Kubelik than anything else. It is very refreshing, like his Beethoven and Schumann. I like it very much and will gladly and eagerly purchase M2 later this month. This is not the last word in M1, and won't be to everyone's taste - it's too restrained for that -- but maybe after 40+ years of conductors over-emoting in Mahler (is that possible?) we're heading in new directions. The orchestra, by the way, is superb and the famed orchestras of Berlin and Vienna had better take notice! I could have done without Blumine. It's weak Mahler at best, and it has no business being included unless it's the 1893 version of the symphony being played.

I listened to the Zinman M1 and basically agree with MB, but I would not rate it as highly overall..........the Kubelik M1 both DG and Audite are much better performances for me, I just don't find Zinman is as free flowing or as boldly dramatic as needed to really deliver a first rate M1. I could see where DH from classics today would like this as it is probably very acurate to the score, but does nothing to inspire me like other versions. Also the Blumine movement never was appealing to me no matter who does it........

If you want great modern sound and very good performance I prefer the recent Gielen/Hansler M1

Haitink/CBO M3
I have read many places that this is best Mahler performance by Haitink, but it really doesn't come close to any of my top 5 list M3s, this is pretty much middle of the pack for me with no special insights. The bright spot was 3rd movement which I thought was actually pretty good, but overall not recommended.

 

[Bunnyears]

I haven't received my Zinman M1 yet, but I do have to agree that Gielen's M1 is excellent. If you get the single of this symphony, it comes with Ives' Central Park in the Dark, an under appreciated work.

 

[DarkAngel]

Bunny
It is a shame that yourmusic.com classical section continues to dramatically shrink in size and quality, I was hoping to pick up a few more of the Gielen Mahler series at bargain prices

The price for the complete Gielen set at Amazon is still quite high, so I will just wait for now

 

[Bunnyears]

I think a lot of the shrinkage has to do with the shrinking dollar. With the dollar so devalued, the European companies are already selling below their expected profit margin in order to maintain price levels here. Also, I believe the club was sold to Universal (DG) so the policies may be changing. It's really a pity, but I haven't seen much to buy at all there recently. any you are aware that Towerrecords.com is now operated by caiman? Well, my last tower order arrived in a Caiman box. I don't order there anymore because I pay tax on tower and don't for amazon.

Edit: You must pick up the Gielen Cooke completion that I believe is still at YM and BMG. That's really terrific, it even beats Rattle's excellent recording. Btw, the Cooke 10th is not part of the box set which only includes the adagio from the 10th.

 

[DarkAngel]

Ok where are the reports on Zinman M2.........I know Bunny et al have surely secured copies, too hard to resisit

I have been fortunate to secure a great M6 that now goes directly into my top 5 list:

Thomas Sanderling on the small Real Sound label with St. Petersburg Philharmonic Orchestra......son of elder Kurt Sanderling with russian orchestra competing with the best ever recorded??? Yes I say.....

The sound quality here is excellent, very transparant and fully of energy great dynamic range, bass on my 12" sub is earth shaking. There is nothing average here, vital and energetic with the broadest range of tonal colors and emotional contrasts. The only thing that prevents it from being best ever comapred to Bernstein Sony for instance is that Lenny captures an indescribable human fraility and sense of tragedy that may never be matched.
I must be hyper critical to find any fault, the style of TS matches my Mahler spirit to a tee.......how unfortunate we do not have more Mahler works by him to treasure

This CD is almost impossible to find, and if you did used price would be shocking, still I must do my duty and report a major Mahler performance that must be owned by serious Mahlerites.

I have decided to remove the Tennstedt M6 so top 5 M6 is now:
1)Mitropoulos/EMI
2)Bernstein/Sony
3)Oue/Fontec
4)Sanderling/Real Sound
5)Kondrashin/Melodiya

 

[mbhaub]

I don't understand why Thomas Sanderling isn't better known. In addition to that fine M6, there's also a superb Brahms symphony cycle, in the worst packaging imaginable, but the performances are thrilling. His Magnard and Petterson disks are also fine. His father didn't want to bask in the limelight, so maybe he doesn't either, but it's too bad, because he seems to be a very talented conductor.

 

[Bunnyears]

DarkAngel,

I am so happy you also like this M6. It's definitely one of the top ones around. I'm surprised it isn't better known as well.

Thomas Sanderling also has some fantastic Shostakovich recordings including this recent release which is still available from yourmusic and bmg music club.