Mahler Symphonies Favorite Recordings
Oct 30, 2008 at 2:13 PM Post #3,391 of 3,718
Quote:

Originally Posted by mbhaub /img/forum/go_quote.gif
And yet this has always been a highly regarded recording. I don't find it cold, just very detached and objective. This is, after all, Mahler's most classical symphony, and that's how Szell approached everything, and that's not always bad. You can tell he didn't really love the score: he omits the first movement repeat.

His fourth is similar. Spectacularly played, but very analytical. Not unlike Boulez.

Maybe it was just a Cleveland thing, because his recording with Schwartzkopf of Das knaben Wunderhorn is marvelous.

But don't throw out the 6th. I find that I change my mind in preferences all the time. Sometimes I want the 7th with Barenboim, sometimes Scherchen, and sometimes Boulez. Just depends on the mood I'm in.



I always thought of it as a reference! I'm going to give it more air time, but it goes beyond the omission of the first expositional repeat. Mitropoulos also omitted it (that was the custom then), but his 6th is so filled with passion which is the one thing that is completely missing from the Szell. Playing every note correctly is not going to give you a great interpretation, just a perfect recital of "the facts, Ma'am." I'd just as soon listen to a Beethoven sonata on one of those computerized player pianos.

I put on the Oue 6th later in the evening and noticed all of the little things he did to make it special -- slowing down in the more lyrical passages so that each note counted, stretching out the nostalgic longing. Jacking up the rhythms in the scherzo so that they mimic perfectly the rushed heartbeat of a panic attack. It's a window into the mind of someone wracked by doubts and paranoia, who then steps back and tries to gain perspective by using happier memories in order to soothe himself. It hit me that Szell's interpretation doesn't look inward at all. It was just a man trying to make an orchestra perform a score of music he didn't relate to on either an emotional nor an esthetic level. Everything that thrills in the best performances came across as cheap sound effects.

I'm still puzzled as to why he bothered recording or performing Mahler at all; certainly there was no great demand for it at that time. Who knows, perhaps he just didn't want to leave a body of work that some future music historian might say was incomplete? I dread listening to the 4th, and may skip that unless I can come to terms with the 6th.
 
Oct 31, 2008 at 4:07 AM Post #3,392 of 3,718
This might shed some light on your problem with Szell:

in 1963 Szell took Cleveland to Carnegie Hall and they did the Mahler 9th. Harold Schonberg wrote: "Mr. Szell and his men played the ninth with extraordinary strength, with clarity and force, with sensitivity and color. It may not have been everbody's Mahler, for some may have found this severe approach unidiomatic...One must remember the vast difference in temperment between the composer and his interpreter: Mahler took great emotional risks, while except for a rather explosive tempre, Szell is a tight, disciplined man."

That's from The Cleveland Orchestra Story. So your evaluation seems spot on. Different symphony, but similar results. The book does however spend some time on extolling how great the 4th is.
 
Oct 31, 2008 at 10:49 AM Post #3,393 of 3,718
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunnyears /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I I'm still puzzled as to why he bothered recording or performing Mahler at all; certainly there was no great demand for it at that time. Who knows, perhaps he just didn't want to leave a body of work that some future music historian might say was incomplete? I dread listening to the 4th, and may skip that unless I can come to terms with the 6th.


I thought Szell's M6 was the worst of his Mahler performances. It was taken from a broadcast recording that was monochromatic and emphasized the dryness of Severance Hall at that time. In contrast, the M4 has much better sound, more flexibility of tempo (not like Mengelberg, of course), and gorgeous playing and singing. I find it deeply felt. There are also recordings of M9 and Das Lied (Baker, Lewis) released by the Cleveland Orchestra and taken from live broadcasts. These have much better sound than the M6 broadcast and they are also find performances. I think all of them are worth a listen, although for me only the M4 goes into the pantheon. I don't think Szell played ANYTHING just for sound effects, not even Hary Janos!
 
Oct 31, 2008 at 2:54 PM Post #3,394 of 3,718
This has been a very dispiriting experience for me: a reference has bitten the dust. :/

I have also learned that memory is not infallible and perceptions change as one matures (I can't think of a better, less intimidating word).

I guess that I have to listen more frequently to my music collection; a Sisyphean task with so many recordings on the shelf and so many new ones constantly arriving.
rolleyes.gif
 
Nov 1, 2008 at 5:12 AM Post #3,395 of 3,718
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunnyears /img/forum/go_quote.gif

I have also learned that memory is not infallible and perceptions change as one matures (I can't think of a better, less intimidating word).



So true, and the only thing I would add to maturity is experience. There is a strong tendency in classical music for all of us to latch on the the first recording we ever hear and think it is the best ever. I know I did that with many of Bernstein's NY recordings. Some were, and still are, the gold standard. But not all.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunnyears /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I guess that I have to listen more frequently to my music collection; a Sisyphean task with so many recordings on the shelf and so many new ones constantly arriving.
rolleyes.gif



That's a real problem isn't it? You have enough recordings to last you for the rest of your life but there's always a new Mahler 6th, Tchaikovsky Manfred, Beethoven 7th that you just have to have because you know that this will the the recording you've been waiting for! I've set a policy effective Jan. 1, 2010. For any new cd coming in, one must go out. If a new cd is a new version of music I already have, an older version must go. Recordings of Franz Schmidt will be exempted.
 
Nov 1, 2008 at 1:31 PM Post #3,396 of 3,718
Quote:

Originally Posted by mbhaub /img/forum/go_quote.gif
So true, and the only thing I would add to maturity is experience. There is a strong tendency in classical music for all of us to latch on the the first recording we ever hear and think it is the best ever. I know I did that with many of Bernstein's NY recordings. Some were, and still are, the gold standard. But not all.




That's a real problem isn't it? You have enough recordings to last you for the rest of your life but there's always a new Mahler 6th, Tchaikovsky Manfred, Beethoven 7th that you just have to have because you know that this will the the recording you've been waiting for! I've set a policy effective Jan. 1, 2010. For any new cd coming in, one must go out. If a new cd is a new version of music I already have, an older version must go. Recordings of Franz Schmidt will be exempted.



So easy to say!
 
Nov 12, 2008 at 6:25 PM Post #3,397 of 3,718
I am on a Mahler 6 kick of late. Listening to Thomas Sanderling's for the first time recently, it's well worth the hype IMHO and should be re released somehow so that more can enjoy it. I have given thought to Szell, but then reading here has given me second thoughts there, so I am looking for other great interpretations, preferably with good modern sound, but I am flexible if the performance is right.

Scott
 
Nov 12, 2008 at 6:42 PM Post #3,398 of 3,718
Mitropoulos in the M6 is still the scorched-earth king for me. Mediocre sound and all, this performance is blazing.
 
Nov 12, 2008 at 8:46 PM Post #3,399 of 3,718
Quote:

Originally Posted by scottder /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I am on a Mahler 6 kick of late. Listening to Thomas Sanderling's for the first time recently, it's well worth the hype IMHO and should be re released somehow so that more can enjoy it. I have given thought to Szell, but then reading here has given me second thoughts there, so I am looking for other great interpretations, preferably with good modern sound, but I am flexible if the performance is right.

Scott



The Sanderling is a great recording, and so hard to find nowadays! Lucky you.
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You should investigate his Shostakovich recordings as well which are also excellent.

Skip the Szell, it's not worth it, both in terms of Szell's interpretation (he takes the symphony like a dose of salts), and the sound quality which shows all of the defects of Severance Hall. It's a cold, unmoving work in his hands.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyson /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Mitropoulos in the M6 is still the scorched-earth king for me. Mediocre sound and all, this performance is blazing.


Looks like you have saved some of your Mahler. Yay!
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(should be Scotch or Bourbon
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)
 
Nov 15, 2008 at 5:14 AM Post #3,401 of 3,718
Bunny, thanks! I recovered the vast majority of my music, and I've been on a buying spree to replace the rest of it. I'm probably at 95% or more now, I'm pretty happy.
 
Nov 16, 2008 at 5:22 PM Post #3,403 of 3,718
Here we go again. Open the wallets. There's a new M7 available that's more than a worthy listen. Its from Gerard Schwarz and the Liverpool Philharmonic on the Artek label. It arrived in the mail Friday, and I've been through it three times. Extremely enjoyable and a riot in the finale! Maybe conductors are finally beginning to get the point. I can see this becoming some people's favorite recording. Very respectful of the score, but he doesn't miss the humor in the work. Next up, Gergiev.
 
Nov 16, 2008 at 8:58 PM Post #3,404 of 3,718
Quote:

Originally Posted by mbhaub /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Here we go again. Open the wallets. There's a new M7 available that's more than a worthy listen. Its from Gerard Schwarz and the Liverpool Philharmonic on the Artek label. It arrived in the mail Friday, and I've been through it three times. Extremely enjoyable and a riot in the finale! Maybe conductors are finally beginning to get the point. I can see this becoming some people's favorite recording. Very respectful of the score, but he doesn't miss the humor in the work. Next up, Gergiev.


This post inspires delightful dread. My wallet, oh my aching wallet!
 
Nov 16, 2008 at 9:23 PM Post #3,405 of 3,718
I picked up the Gergiev M6 (Amazon MP3 store, because I am impatient at times). Want to see how I like he take on Mahler and weather I want to dig further into his cycle. Would be nice to have a great cycle on SACD.

Scott
 

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