[Bunnyears]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAngel I am listening to Bunny's beloved Gatti/Music Heritage 5th right now, as said before a compelling vibrant performance that is close to the top of any short list of Mahler 5ths.

Glad you like it, but I can't take any credit for this find. It was recommended to me by Mark from HFR, and so far he hasn't steered me wrong.

 

[scottder]

Ancerl M9 on the way. $8.78 on Amazon was too much to resist.

Scott

 

[mbhaub]

Quote:

Originally Posted by daycart1 One often hears about how pitch has drifted over the years. How is that determined--just by living memory of people with perfect pitch?

Actually, it's easier than that. Over the past two hundred or more years, pitch has raised the standard tuning A. In parts of Europe, organs were tuned as low as A=420 Hz, whereas today in the US A=440 is the standard. We know this because when you try to play a modern instrument built to 440 with those older instruments, playing in-tune is very difficult. There were organs built as high as A = 500. In 1860 France declared the standard tuning pitch to be A=435. The modern international standard of 440 came about as recently as 1939 from the British Standards Institution, in large part due to American influence of 440. Some European orchestras still tune lower than 440 (New Philharmonic Pitch is 439), and that explains some of the differences in sound quality. American orchestras tend to be "brighter". (Keep in mind, these are broad generalizations.) Eventually, as music is more internatiolized, A440 will be everyone's standard. There is one group of people who will not like this: opera singers.
Interestingly, 440 was the result of electronics more than anything else. It was easier to built a circuit that could generate exactly 440 cycles per second than one that did 439, or some other number.
DIdn't mean to be so long winded, but as a practicing musician, these things really do matter.

 

[bigshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by daycart1 One often hears about how pitch has drifted over the years. How is that determined--just by living memory of people with perfect pitch?

No... in the case of the Vienna Philharmonic, some of the fixed pitch woodwind instruments were made for the orchestra and are passed down from player to player. Those are around A-445, and the orchestra tunes to accomodate them. But for the past 100 years or so, A-440 has been the standard with most orchestras.

Pitch is a very big issue for 78rpm restorations. They aren't always 78rpm, and the pitch can vary from side to side in a set.

See ya
Steve

 

[Doc Sarvis]

What is everyone's favorite 7th?

I'm not sure if this has come up before, and I'd be interested in opinions. I have the following 7ths (very few indeed by comparison with my numbers of other Mahler symphonies):

Levine
Abravanel
Kondrashin
Bernstein NY

Of these, I think that the Bernstein is the only one that really makes cohesive sense - he seemed to understand this work, especially the last movement.

I'm interested in finding the definitive performace of this enigmatic symphony. Any opinions???

 

[mbhaub]

(For some reason I thought this was Shostakovich 7th. Wrong thread. oops)

 

[DarkAngel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc Sarvis What is everyone's favorite 7th? I'm not sure if this has come up before, and I'd be interested in opinions. I have the following 7ths (very few indeed by comparison with my numbers of other Mahler symphonies): Levine Abravanel Kondrashin Bernstein NY Of these, I think that the Bernstein is the only one that really makes cohesive sense - he seemed to understand this work, especially the last movement. I'm interested in finding the definitive performace of this enigmatic symphony. Any opinions???

This should be your next move I believe......less controversial than Kondrashin and closer in line to Bernstein/Sony (which I prefer to his slower DG version) and on short list of best 7ths ever for me.

I still feel Kondrashin sweeps all comers here, but can see where some will feel things are too manic and over the top

 

[Doc Sarvis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAngel This should be your next move I believe......less controversial than Kondrashin and closer in line to Bernstein/Sony (which I prefer to his slower DG version) and on short list of best 7ths ever for me. I still feel Kondrashin sweeps all comers here, but can see where some will feel things are too manic and over the top

I think the Kondrashin 5th is the best I've heard ever - by a long shot. (Love those Russian trumpets!). His 7th is second to NY Lenny for me, mainly because the last movement doesn't have as much of a "long line" feel to me. Might be because Lenny made cuts???

I will check out the Kubelik - do you know if this is the one from his DG set? He's got enough "bests" that I might just pick up the whole set...

 

[SoundsGood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc Sarvis I will check out the Kubelik - do you know if this is the one from his DG set? He's got enough "bests" that I might just pick up the whole set...

The Kubelik M7 posted here is on the label Audite. These are different performances from Kubelik's DG cycle. The Audite recordings were generally recorded around the same time as the DG recordings, but all of the Audites are live performances. Almost everything that I've read says that the Audite recordings are to be preferred. Kubelik was a different man in the concert hall; as opposed to the recording studio. FWIW, Audite has released the whole 'live' Mahler cycle with Kubelik, and a few of those have been SACD hybrids.

 

[DarkAngel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc Sarvis I think the Kondrashin 5th is the best I've heard ever - by a long shot. (Love those Russian trumpets!). His 7th is second to NY Lenny for me, mainly because the last movement doesn't have as much of a "long line" feel to me. Might be because Lenny made cuts??? I will check out the Kubelik - do you know if this is the one from his DG set? He's got enough "bests" that I might just pick up the whole set...

The Audite series are live performances from 1980s with Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra, very good sound and very quiet audience.......these are different that the DG studio set sold.

If you feel flush the Kubelik/Audite 1,5,7,9 are all excellent.

 

[SoundsGood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottder Ancerl M9 on the way. $8.78 on Amazon was too much to resist. Scott

I think you will enjoy this recording very much. Ancerl makes the Czech Phil. really dig in. It is full of rhythmic verve and a whole lot of intensity. I think the second movement is one of the real highlights of the recording. The recording is certainly near the top of my list.

 

[Doc Sarvis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAngel The Audite series are live performances from 1980s with Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra, very good sound and very quiet audience.......these are different that the DG studio set sold. If you feel flush the Kubelik/Audite 1,5,7,9 are all excellent.

Now that you mention this I remember noting the difference between the Audite and DG versions. Now I'm off to pick a few of these up!

 

[Bunnyears]

Not to mention the Kubelik-Audite M8 which has been issued in SACD/hybrid and which is considered by many to be one of the greatest of that symphony.

 

[mbhaub]

I goofed up a bit.
I'll have to try this Audite. Kubelik's M7 live with New York on their Mahler release is much better than his DG studio version, so I don't doubt the live is better.
I like Kondrashin best in 7: he let's the madcap finale run and it's thrilling. But for modern sound, superb playing, and a really exciting performance, you need to try Michael Tilson Thomas with the LSO on RCA. I really think it's the top of the heap.

Kubelik's set: Of many sets by one conductor, it is probably the most overall satisfying, next to Edo de Waarts. I can live with Kubeliks. Some people complain about the lack of intensity and bass, but I don't. I think Kubelik looks at Mahler as being from a different time, and not a mid-20th C composer and so many people treat him.

 

[Doc Sarvis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunnyears Not to mention the Kubelik-Audite M8 which has been issued in SACD/hybrid and which is considered by many to be one of the greatest of that symphony.

Yikes!