[commando]

My new PPA with AOS DAC is sounding ok, but not really too much of a step up from the Sonica analog out with a Pimeta. Does anyone know if the sonica's optical digital out is any good? I'm wondering if this is the limiting part of my system at the moment.

 

[lan]

Do you have power conditioning? A good interconnect? If not, upgrades past a certain point get harder to hear.

 

[commando]

I don't have power conditioning, but I have a decent glass optical interconnect. My question is really is the sonica's digital output complete crap, ok, or really good.

 

[lan]

The output is just ok. You'll need a 1212m to make a sizeable difference.

But it's all related in increasing performance. No power conditioning and ok interconnect masks the real improvements of the digital out.

 

[jerry1130]

what drivers are you using for the sonica, is it 1205?

 

[SunByrne]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lan The output is just ok. You'll need a 1212m to make a sizeable difference.

Hunh? In the OPTICAL out? Both the Sonica and the 1212 should produce the SAME digital output. The bitstream coming off the Sonica should not be upsampled or anything like that (if you have the current drivers), and should be the same as the 1212. The optical source should make very little difference. (Yes, the ANALOG output of the 1212 should be an upgrade over the Sonica, but that's not what's at issue here.)

So, what is at issue here is the performance of the Sonica's analog out vs. the AOS DAC's analog out, and the PIMETA vs. the PPA. For what it's worth, I would indeed agree that the AOS DAC ought to sound better than the Sonica, and this is weird.

Quote:

But it's all related in increasing performance. No power conditioning and ok interconnect masks the real improvements of the digital out.

Hmm, or maybe it's because he's driving 3Ks, which are pretty easy to drive. The circuit topology of the PIMETA is derived from the PPA, and perhaps there really isn't an enormous difference between them when driving low-impedance cans. My impression was always that the PPA was designed to meet the needs of those with hard-to-drive 300-ohm Senns. I mean, isn't that always one of the arguments used by the 3K crowd, easier to drive? So maybe that part is not surprising? I'm speculating, I know.

 

[commando]

I have the sonica 1205 drivers, and yes i'm using the CD3Ks.

The reason I ask is that I can hear only a small improvement with the AOS DAC/PPA vs the Sonica Analog out/Pimeta. MisterX suggested that I try it with a different source, as the Sonica might not be very good. I'm going to bring my cheap DVD player into work on the weekend, as it has an optical out I can try.

Right now, for a rather large investment (DAC + PPA + Triad Diamond Buffer + Interconnect) i'm not seeing much improvement. The bass is more extended and the clarity improved very slightly, but there was no "wow". I'm seriously considering selling everything and just getting some 250-80s and running them from my PC headphone out.

 

[lan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SunByrne Hunh? In the OPTICAL out? Both the Sonica and the 1212 should produce the SAME digital output.

The optical out of the emu is driven by better clock and stuff so has less jitter. This is audible (if your system can resolve it of course).


On another note, how long have you had these things burnin commando?

 

[commando]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lan On another note, how long have you had these things burnin commando?

Everything's sitting on about 150 hours, including amp/dac/buffer/interconnect. Headphones might have a bit more than that.

 

[Wodgy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SunByrne The bitstream coming off the Sonica should not be upsampled or anything like that (if you have the current drivers)

This isn't correct. I was never able to get a bit-perfect output from the Sonica with the most current drivers on Windows XP. Going back to the 1.2.05 drivers fixed the problems for me.

As for the digital output's quality, the Sonica isn't too bad. I've had occasional problems with my homemade DAC losing sync with the Sonica's digital output, which suggests that it may have an above average amount of jitter, but your mileage may vary, and it will depend on the quality of the S/PDIF receiver on your DAC. My DAC uses a receiver from Crystal Semiconductor.

 

[commando]

I don't have any errors syncing - it always works perfectly. I guess the question is would a different source sound any better?

 

[SunByrne]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wodgy This isn't correct. I was never able to get a bit-perfect output from the Sonica with the most current drivers on Windows XP. Going back to the 1.2.05 drivers fixed the problems for me.

Sorry, I meant the *correct* driver, not the *current* driver. My bad.

 

[commando]

FYI: http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?p=873224

 

[kyrie]

I'd guess it's a combination of both the phones and the digital out. I've heard that the AOS DAC really varies in quality of output depending on the quality of the digital input. I think you might just have to try out other sources and see if it makes a difference.
Also, the CD3k is relatively easy to drive. Although it improves in performance with an amp like any other good headphone, it takes much less juice than, say, a HD650 or DT880 to have it sounding good.
When it comes down to it, you'd already reached the point of diminishing returns when you had the PIMETA.

 

[commando]

I'll reply on the other thread I linked too, no point saying the same thing on 3 different threads.