[mosi]

Hi there!

I've been lurking these Forums for some weeks now.
Somehow I have ignored all the warnings about staying here and spending more money on audio stuff but hey.. guess I'm in pretty bad company here no?

Well the point is, currently I am considering to upgrade my main source of music, namely my Onboard Nforce2 soundcard of my Shuttle Barebone system.
If I still had one internal Slot left maybe i'd have bought the M-Audio Revolution but that one precioussss slot is occupied by my video-in card which I use frequently so internal cards are out of the contest.

Ultimatively the new card will be the main source for me.
When sort of "on the road" it will have to directly power my ety er-6 (guess where i did get the idea to buy those ones...

)
at home it will power into my onkyo receiver which in turn takes care of my hd600 or some speakers.
I do gaming too, but I don't need all that fancy surround sound and stuff, plain good stereo output is far better suited for me, so maybe that still counts the m-audio in.

Still no problems anywhere right? Well here they come.. sort of.

Comparing CD to 192 lame encoded mp3 I can safely say I am absolutely unable to spot any differences except from the occasional encoder error. Tested with various Dire Straits CD's and in some blind test with my rig (kenwood dp7060 and an onkyo sv535 receiver) and couldn't tell the difference.
So i just plugged my etys into the soundcard and compared some "lame 128cbr" mp3s and the "lame 192vbr" ones I made from my Xenosaga ost ( A gorgeous videogame ost mostly done by the London Philharmonic orchestra). That too gave me some rather hard time , I think I can't tell the difference between the 128 and the 192kbit mp3s too.

Originally I intended to also compare the Onboard sound with my old Terratec XFire1024 but the amps on that thing are about to die on me, can't get any decent listening levels out of the thing without distortion.
Now I'm wondering if I'd be able to spot the differences between my existing onboard sound and the m-audio.

Any input on my rambling is greatly appreciated

mosi

 

[Wodgy]

The Sonica only provides a line out -- it won't power your ER-6s. Literally, the DAC chip is directly AC-coupled to the line out, there are no op-amps or anything in the signal path that would drive headphones (this is partly why the Sonica sounds so good). If you'd like to be able to power your ER-6s on the road, you should go with the M-Audio Audiophile USB instead.

The Sonica is good enough that you should be able to tell the difference between CDs and 192kbit MP3s. Personally, I consider my modded Sonica to be on the same level as my Pioneer Elite DV-45A, and better than my old Sony NS-500V. The stock, unmodded Sonica is roughly on the same level as an entry-level CD player. The differences between CDs and MP3s will be audible, but you may have to hang around here a bit longer and train your ears to hear them.

 

[JeffL]

I love my Sonica. I would mod it, but I don't want to risk it at this point (plus no time to do it right the first time).

OTOH, eBay has these things go for ~$40 if you look. Well worth it for what you get, and it sounds great!

It certainly won't power headphones, but a good portable amp would do the trick. I have my Sonica plugged into a Marantz 2230B and it is perfect with my Beyers.

 

[lojay]

Wodgy, I don't think you like the sonica better than the RME overall right? I guess the RME would sound a whole lot better is that so?

I'm asking this because from many of ur posts you don't seem to prefer the RME, and now you've mentioned that the Sonica sounds good.....so you either really like the Sonica or really dislike the RME, or am i wrong? (On the other hand may it just be that you think it'd crazy to compare the RME with $1000 CDP's, which some "advocates" of the RME were doing)?

(I'm reconsidering everything now that I don't have permission to buy overseas til summer...bummer. I know exactly where I can buy the Sonica's locally compared to the RME's which must be bought overseas)

Haha.... sorry for "hijacking" but since the sonica's way cheaper (and I can afford buying them in secret without my parents noticing ^^) I might get it first right now then the RME later....

BTW, Wodgy I've seen you mention that u think that the RME couldn't compare with $400 CDP's, so is that for real? If that's so, I'd rather go for cheap soundcards (like the Sonica) and a decent CDP in summer (Meridian's?).

 

[Wodgy]

The answer is more complicated than you probably want. I think they're both good cards. I also like the Terratec EWX 24/96. I don't think any of them can equal a very expensive standalone CDP or DAC for strictly engineering reasons, but that doesn't mean they're not competitive with standalone devices in their price classes.

Also, personally, I have a preference for DAC chips from AKM Semiconductor. That's just my sonic preference, and I realize everyone has different ears and tastes. AKM devices have a warmth that's subtle but really enjoyable. I'm not as big a fan of DACs from Analog Devices. They're more dynamic than devices from AKM, and have better detail, but I find them cold. I happen to have built a standalone DAC using the same chip as the RME card, and I used it for a long time, so I feel that I have a pretty good handle on that kind of sound. It's not my thing, but others will like it. As for the other manufacturers, Burr-Brown and Crystal/Cirrus, I think Burr-Brown devices tend to be boring but unobjectionable, and Crystal/Cirrus devices being closer to the AKM sound.

Anyway, my AKM preference is partly why I recommend the Sonica so highly. Stock it's a good device in its price class and will rival introductory (say, $120) CD players. My Sonica is modded, and it did make a big difference in sound. The device has such a simple analog stage (just a capacitor once modded) that nothing can go wrong. The DAC itself is very enjoyable sounding. I don't think it's a coincidence that the other popular "sleeper" or high perceived value-for-money DAC, the ART DI/O, also uses an AKM chip (slightly older than the one in the Sonica).

 

[lojay]

Understood, thanks for the detailed explaination; that again proves I should try their sound first...

But I've also heard that the Sonica is far less superior to the RME by detail and dynamics, true? I GUESS I'd prefer detail to warmth....because that would be presumably the largest audible difference between my current card and the new card....but again I'll need to listen to both to be sure whether it's warmth or detail or soundstage I want. I'm seeing upgrading the source as the starting step for my setup...(I'm using a Sennheiser HD497 which is in no way "hi"-fi)..

 

[Wodgy]

If you prefer detail or dynamics to warmth, you should probably go with the RME.

 

[mosi]

Thanks for the input

Somehow I feared, that the sonica hasn't enough power to feed phones directly.
Well i looked around a bit and the only other option I found was some FireWire Aureon 7.1 by Terratec which retails for about the same $$ as the M-Audio Audiophile usb.
They've got an Aureon 5.1 which is only 100€'ish but I dunno about their quality since it is bus-powered, the headphone out of that one is rated 60 mWatt in the specs.

If I really wanted i could stretch to the Audiophile USB and start some full blown armed conflict with my wallet.

mosi

 

[aphex944]

Quote:

Originally posted by Wodgy Also, personally, I have a preference for DAC chips from AKM Semiconductor. That's just my sonic preference, and I realize everyone has different ears and tastes. AKM devices have a warmth that's subtle but really enjoyable.

So true! Totally agree with everything you said..

Mosi, if you aren't connecting to an external amp, either the Terratec or M-Audio solutions are great. As far as I know, Terratec uses Wolfson DACs on their Aureon lineup, which are great.

If I were you, I'd stretch for the Audiophile USB. That way you have the ability to drive headphones directly, and it also has a separate power source(no juice from the computer). It also uses a DAC that has better specifications than the one in the Sonica. Not sure about the audible difference, but it may yield more detail.

 

[mosi]

So i guess the audiophile it is eh? *no.. put that gun down... baad wallet*

Somehow I thought I'd end up with that one.
aphex944: Like you said, the external power supply looks a bit more promising than those bus-powered units.
This USB Stuff maybe eliminates some rather bad and very long cabling running from pc to receiver as its more close to the receiver then.

I think i'll order that one in the next days from somewhere around here.
When it arrives i'll keep you updated how it performs (to my ears at least)
Also maybe a little about gaming performance with recent games and stuff.
I didn't find too much comments about that.

Anyhow, Big Thanks for all the comments and suggestions

mosi

 

[zarathustra]

Hi, could any of you give me some suggestions on modding the sonica, or should I get a head amp? I got a sonica yesterday but I find its sound is anything but great when driving a Sony V6 directly. Kinds of muddy highs and mediocre bass.

 

[JeffL]

Quote:

Originally posted by zarathustra Hi, could any of you give me some suggestions on modding the sonica, or should I get a head amp? I got a sonica yesterday but I find its sound is anything but great when driving a Sony V6 directly. Kinds of muddy highs and mediocre bass.

The Sonica isn't meant to drive *anything* directly. It is a line out. You *must* have an amp of some sort to power the headphones.

The mod doesn't do much but clean up the sound and clean up the power a bit. It doesn't add capabilities to drive headphones directly.

 

[zarathustra]

Any suggestions for a decent, yet not expensive head amp for my sonica and V6? Thanks.

 

[pkasting]

zarathustra, wrong forum for that question, go ask in the amps forum.