[musicday]

I would like to try the new Diana MR, Sony MDR Z1R and the Composer headphones with the W4. Apparently they are not that hard to drive and on the balanced 410 mW should be ok.

 

[Andricop]

Don't know about others, but I use my EX daily. Simply love it I don't post cuz I never have any problems with it.

Exactly

 

[MidFiMoney]

People don't use the W4 anymore? I wish the L&P will have a representative here to answer questions and provide new features, firmware updates.

Still love and use mine but I recently got the DC-Elite and that this is the real king of the dongles in my opinion. It’s simply amazing! But I do agree, LP need to drop some new features/updates to keep the interest going. The dongle space is pretty crowded right now.

 

[musicday]

Still love and use mine but I recently got the DC-Elite and that this is the real king of the dongles in my opinion. It’s simply amazing! But I do agree, LP need to drop some new features/updates to keep the interest going. The dongle space is pretty crowded right now.

But the Elite is weaker on balanced 280mW vs W4 420mW, so not really ideal for some full size headphones. Still looks very interesting and I will read more about it

 

[piphil]

And i prefer LP sound, i have just sold the Ibasso dc elite!
Here, a Marvel especielly with FQL Blue Moon...

 

[musicday]

 

[MidFiMoney]

But the Elite is weaker on balanced 280mW vs W4 420mW, so not really ideal for some full size headphones. Still looks very interesting and I will read more about it

I was concerned about the power until I heard it. It drives the D8000 Pro, MM-500, Clear Mg, and Arya SE wonderfully.

 

[calypsorot]

I would like to try the new Diana MR, Sony MDR Z1R and the Composer headphones with the W4. Apparently they are not that hard to drive and on the balanced 410 mW should be ok.

FWIW I can run my MDR-Z1R on the W2-131 at the upper end of the volume range with high gain (usually around 70-75). I'd assume the W4 could easily handle it!

 

[mainguy]

Man I just got the W2 used on eBay for 115, but I like it so much I wish Id stretched for W4EX to get that sweet sweet volume wheel. The smooth sound signature is very nice for some evening listening.

 

[makbrown]

Hello friends!
I have great IEMs, but now I need great HP.
Can you please tell me which full-size headphones I can consider?
This could be a new or older model, I am happy to look at the used market as well.

(in fact, I have W2 OG, but I think the recommendations will be similar).

Thanks in advance for any advice

 

[Promee]

Hello friends!
I have great IEMs, but now I need great HP.
Can you please tell me which full-size headphones I can consider?
This could be a new or older model, I am happy to look at the used market as well.

(in fact, I have W2 OG, but I think the recommendations will be similar).

Thanks in advance for any advice

Hi Mak,

A couple of general considerations and a couple of specific suggestions for you:

1. Open back vs closed back - Open has advantages in being able to better tune the frequency response and have an open sounstage, but they let in all noise from the environment and let everyone around you hear your music, so they are really for at-home solo listening. If you’re planning to use them out in the world, definitely go with closed.

2. Driver type, there are two common ones that you should choose between to start with - dynamic or planar magnetic. There are exceptions, but in general, dynamics have more natural timbre and more “slam” (my preference generally) but planars have more extension into the sub-bass region and more speed and technicality with the ability to avoid distortion in complex passages.

3. Power - if you’re in this thread, I’m assuming you plan to use this with a dongle, so making sure you can drive the headphone comfortably is clritical. Remember that the dongles almost always put out much more power on the balanced output and this is especially true for the W4, so if you’re cutting it close with a tough to drive headphone, you’ll want to use a 4.4 mm balanced cable. There are 2 considerations here. Impedance - this is a property of the headphone itself - an amp can only put so much power into a given impedance, so be sure to check how much power your amp / dongle can put into a given impedance, for example most solid state amps and dongles can put much more power into low impedance headphones like 200-400 mW into 32 ohms, but much less into higher impedance of 200-300 ohms. This is a rule of thumb, but things can get weird with tube amps especially isn’t always the case. Sensitivity - how loud the headphone gets per mW of power that goes into it, so even if impedance is high, if sensitivity is also high, they might not be that hard to drive, for example let’s say you have 300 ohm impedance headphones and your dongle can only put 10 mW into 300 ohm headphones, that won’t be a problem if they are very sensitive headphones, like 100 dB per mW - 1 mW would get you to an ear-destroying 100 dB and you would have 10 mW to work with, so more power than you need.

For specific recommendations, I love my Focal Clear (open back dynamic) and Focal Celestee (closed back dynamic). You should also look at the classic Sennheiser HD 600 and 6XX open back dynamics. I have not heard them, but Dan Clark Audio makes some popular closed back planars, and Hifiman Arya or Audeze LCD-X or LCD-2C would be popular choices for open back planars. Of course there are a zillion other options out there. If you want to go really high-end, you might check out Abyss or ZMF or the higher end offerings from the brands mentioned above.

There are a ton of good videos on YouTube that can help with this choice - check out The Headphone Show - they do a good job with combining subjective and objective info in their reviews. Head-fi also has good videos on quite a few headphones that can help the decision making process.

Hope this helps, and happy listening!

 

[makbrown]

Hi Mak,

A couple of general considerations and a couple of specific suggestions for you:

1. Open back vs closed back - Open has advantages in being able to better tune the frequency response and have an open sounstage, but they let in all noise from the environment and let everyone around you hear your music, so they are really for at-home solo listening. If you’re planning to use them out in the world, definitely go with closed.

2. Driver type, there are two common ones that you should choose between to start with - dynamic or planar magnetic. There are exceptions, but in general, dynamics have more natural timbre and more “slam” (my preference generally) but planars have more extension into the sub-bass region and more speed and technicality with the ability to avoid distortion in complex passages.

3. Power - if you’re in this thread, I’m assuming you plan to use this with a dongle, so making sure you can drive the headphone comfortably is clritical. Remember that the dongles almost always put out much more power on the balanced output and this is especially true for the W4, so if you’re cutting it close with a tough to drive headphone, you’ll want to use a 4.4 mm balanced cable. There are 2 considerations here. Impedance - this is a property of the headphone itself - an amp can only put so much power into a given impedance, so be sure to check how much power your amp / dongle can put into a given impedance, for example most solid state amps and dongles can put much more power into low impedance headphones like 200-400 mW into 32 ohms, but much less into higher impedance of 200-300 ohms. This is a rule of thumb, but things can get weird with tube amps especially isn’t always the case. Sensitivity - how loud the headphone gets per mW of power that goes into it, so even if impedance is high, if sensitivity is also high, they might not be that hard to drive, for example let’s say you have 300 ohm impedance headphones and your dongle can only put 10 mW into 300 ohm headphones, that won’t be a problem if they are very sensitive headphones, like 100 dB per mW - 1 mW would get you to an ear-destroying 100 dB and you would have 10 mW to work with, so more power than you need.

For specific recommendations, I love my Focal Clear (open back dynamic) and Focal Celestee (closed back dynamic). You should also look at the classic Sennheiser HD 600 and 6XX open back dynamics. I have not heard them, but Dan Clark Audio makes some popular closed back planars, and Hifiman Arya or Audeze LCD-X or LCD-2C would be popular choices for open back planars. Of course there are a zillion other options out there. If you want to go really high-end, you might check out Abyss or ZMF or the higher end offerings from the brands mentioned above.

There are a ton of good videos on YouTube that can help with this choice - check out The Headphone Show - they do a good job with combining subjective and objective info in their reviews. Head-fi also has good videos on quite a few headphones that can help the decision making process.

Hope this helps, and happy listening!

Thank you very much for the theory, most of it is familiar to me, but it is really very useful!
I also know about the difference between balanced output and 3.5, I listen to my IEMs through balanced 4.4 and I also plan to listen to headphones through 4.4.

If we talk about practical possibilities, then on the W2 OG headphones with what resistance and sensitivity will open from the balanced output?
For example, there are many excellent 300 ohm headphones, but W2, of course, simply won’t reveal them

 

[Promee]

Thank you very much for the theory, most of it is familiar to me, but it is really very useful!
I also know about the difference between balanced output and 3.5, I listen to my IEMs through balanced 4.4 and I also plan to listen to headphones through 4.4.

If we talk about practical possibilities, then on the W2 OG headphones with what resistance and sensitivity will open from the balanced output?
For example, there are many excellent 300 ohm headphones, but W2, of course, simply won’t reveal them

It’s a little bit difficult to say for sure because L&P only publish the power at 32 ohms (230 mW I think). I will say that the W4 (which they quote at 400 mW into 32 ohms, but no numbers given for other impedance) is able to drive the 300 ohm HD 600 with no problem in high gain mode, but it does run at the higher end of the volume, so I would guess that something lower impedance would be a better bet for the W2. The Focal Clear open back and Celestee closed back are both very easy to drive and should pose no issue, same is true for the Audeze LCD-X 2021 and Hifiman Arya. Any of those should be absolutely no problem for the W2 on balanced I would think, and they are all highly regarded headphones. You may see people say things about not trying to use planars on a dongle DAC because of needing more power, but that is based on older models with low sensitivity. There are plenty now that are extremely easy to drive. I think all of those models I mentioned are under 32 ohm of impedance, so you should have 200+ mW to drive them, and they are all sensitive at more than 90 dB for 1 mW, so you should have a bunch of headroom to drive them with no strain and no excessive battery consumption. I would guess that as long as sensitivity is good at 90+ dB, then you’re probably good to go up to 100-150 ohms impedance (but that is a guess without the relevant specs), and if you have low impedance at 32 ohms or less, based on my napkin math and assuming a max listening level of 90 dB, you would be able to choose a headphone as low as 70 dB / mW sensitivity, though 80+ will probably be better for power consumption and leaving some headroom for things that are mastered quiet like some classical music or DSD tracks. The good news is that these days there are a ton of really good options that should fit very nicely in those ranges, including the models mentioned above. If anyone sees an issue with my assumptions or calculations above, please feel free to reply and we can all learn together!

 

[makbrown]

It’s a little bit difficult to say for sure because L&P only publish the power at 32 ohms (230 mW I think). I will say that the W4 (which they quote at 400 mW into 32 ohms, but no numbers given for other impedance) is able to drive the 300 ohm HD 600 with no problem in high gain mode, but it does run at the higher end of the volume, so I would guess that something lower impedance would be a better bet for the W2. The Focal Clear open back and Celestee closed back are both very easy to drive and should pose no issue, same is true for the Audeze LCD-X 2021 and Hifiman Arya. Any of those should be absolutely no problem for the W2 on balanced I would think, and they are all highly regarded headphones. You may see people say things about not trying to use planars on a dongle DAC because of needing more power, but that is based on older models with low sensitivity. There are plenty now that are extremely easy to drive. I think all of those models I mentioned are under 32 ohm of impedance, so you should have 200+ mW to drive them, and they are all sensitive at more than 90 dB for 1 mW, so you should have a bunch of headroom to drive them with no strain and no excessive battery consumption. I would guess that as long as sensitivity is good at 90+ dB, then you’re probably good to go up to 100-150 ohms impedance (but that is a guess without the relevant specs), and if you have low impedance at 32 ohms or less, based on my napkin math and assuming a max listening level of 90 dB, you would be able to choose a headphone as low as 70 dB / mW sensitivity, though 80+ will probably be better for power consumption and leaving some headroom for things that are mastered quiet like some classical music or DSD tracks. The good news is that these days there are a ton of really good options that should fit very nicely in those ranges, including the models mentioned above. If anyone sees an issue with my assumptions or calculations above, please feel free to reply and we can all learn together!

I understand everything you wrote and agree with it. I don’t want to go into holivar because this is a very deep topic.

If we at least roughly generalize, then having data about 230 mW at 32 Ohms - what impedance/sensitivity will be the minimum for the headphones to play?
I understand that everything is individual for each headphone, but please give approximate impedance/sensitivity combinations as a rough guide.

 

[musicday]

Man I just got the W2 used on eBay for 115, but I like it so much I wish Id stretched for W4EX to get that sweet sweet volume wheel. The smooth sound signature is very nice for some evening listening.

Congratulations, now enjoy it for a while then sell it and buy the W4. I did the same and the sound difference between the two is quite big