[judgmentday]

 

 

[NA Blur]

Can you hear above 20 kHz?

 

[dprimary]

Where did they get microphones in 1958 that went over 16k let alone 22k?

 

[judgmentday]

The evidence is there for all you guys to see, if you cannot see it, much less you will hear it.  If you think that digital is better, you are no listening period.
You have been fooled for the last 35 years.  Digital is an audio scam!
Vinyl is the only analog format forever for the music lover, for the collector and purist audiophiles.
Some people are buying TTs and LPs already because they realized that they were fooled since 1980 by Phillips and Sony,

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 
The evidence is there for all you guys to see, if you cannot see it, much less you will hear it.  If you think that digital is better, you are no listening period.
You have been fooled for the last 35 years.  Digital is an audio scam!
Vinyl is the only analog format forever for the music lover, for the collector and purist audiophiles.
Some people are buying TTs and LPs already because they realized that they were fooled since 1980 by Phillips and Sony,

 

There's an analogue financial scheme too, althoough I wouldn't call it a scam. Neither is digital, but the point I'm going to make is that there's one thing people ignore about analogue, and that would be how even a properly maintained TT with the arm level at the right specs will have physical contact with the vinyl, which means that there will always be wear and tear, which means you're going to either buy two at a time or buy it again later on. And when you buy one again later on, the people who bought two at a time can sell you an original or earlier pressing for much more than it originally cost.

 

I've gone to too many demos of high end equipment (set up by the distro with reps from the brands) and no matter how wide the frequency response is, it's always mired by the fact that it came with Snap, Crackle, and Pop. I mean, come on, I had breakfast hours ago, why do Kellogg's mascots have to follow me to the demo room?

 

[dprimary]

Yes LP's can have wider bandwidth, is it useful signal? Out of band noise and distortion not very useful. In 1958 what microphones and tape machines could they have possibly use to record the album that in the video is claiming has ultrasonic information? An Ampex 351 was only flat to 15K, most Neumanns also only went out to about 15K.
Considering the at the age of 20 the typical upper limit is 18k at +80dB above what the typical person can hear at 2-3k, 15k and 40 and 12-13K at 60 anything over 22k is out of band. Most likely somewhere in the recording chain it was boosted at around 16-18K bringing up the ultrasonic noise with it.

 

[jcx]

sorry, I missed the part where the captured hirez from the needle drops were picked in blind level matched listening vs direct or digital filtered at 22.1kHz
 
 
 
and just to add a bit of pedantry he actually could have given us 96k in a youtube audio stream and 48k is the default not 44.1 as stated in the video:
 
https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/1722171?hl=en
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Audio_Coding
 
now where AAC-LC cuts high frequency for perceptual coding is another search

 

[icebear]

What's the noise floor level on a typical TT set up?
How much >20kHz freq. in an analog recording is actual musical information and not just noise?
What's the volume level of the >20kHz part of the signal?
 
Some people also prefer film vs digital sensor captured photos.
They just like analog film grain better.
When I look at my surrounding, I do not see any grain in reality.
 
So what ever pleases you, that's a personal preference.
Claiming that analog technology is inherently superior to latest state of the art digital recordings is hogwash

 

 

[judgmentday]

  Yes LP's can have wider bandwidth, is it useful signal? Out of band noise and distortion not very useful. In 1958 what microphones and tape machines could they have possibly use to record the album that in the video is claiming has ultrasonic information? An Ampex 351 was only flat to 15K, most Neumanns also only went out to about 15K.
Considering the at the age of 20 the typical upper limit is 18k at +80dB above what the typical person can hear at 2-3k, 15k and 40 and 12-13K at 60 anything over 22k is out of band. Most likely somewhere in the recording chain it was boosted at around 16-18K bringing up the ultrasonic noise with it.

Then why all high end audio components  have frequency response beyond the 20Hz ~ 20kHz frequency? Check these ones:
http://www.audioresearch.com/en-us/products/g-series/gspre
http://www.audioresearch.com/en-us/products/integrated-amplifiers/vsi75
http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/Speakers/Home_Audio/800_Series_Diamond/804-D3.html
The beloved Sennheiser HD650 goes beyond 20hz/20kHz
http://en-us.sennheiser.com/high-quality-headphones-around-ear-audio-surround-hd-650#product_data
Turntables go beyond the 20Hz ~ 20kHz easily.
Vinyl have been recorded @ 122kHz, see this:
http://positive-feedback.com/Issue2/mastering.htm
All these components have this frequency response for a reason. Some frequencies you feel them, they make them self present even if our ears would not hear them.
Wind cannot be heard but can be felt, vibrations cannot be heard but can be felt and so forth.
If we take in count what is already done on Lp recording we can say that the frequency range could be this: 8Hz to 50kHz, the 1812 recording on Telarc goes to 8Hz and the cutting machine on the recording goes to 50kHz: so this is the theorethical frequency range.

Now, which is the frequency range response that we normally heard at home systems?, the answer is a complex one because there are several factors that define that frequency response range: the recording it self, the cartridge, the phonolinepreamp, amplifier, speakers and room interaction.

The whole frequency range response never was/is a problem with the analog reproduction recordings: we have all the " music " frequency range like in a live event
 
Many cars go beyond the 70Mph speed legal limit but that does not mean than I cannot drive over 200Mph in my sports cars. It will be super boring to have a sports car that is limited to 70mph only.
So I want to have in my room the 8Hz to 50kHz frequency or more if possible as live music has more beyond that.

 

[jcx]

show you can hear it blind, controlled "ears only" listening test - with linear playback equipment that doesn't fold down IMD products to "conventional audio" range
 
if you have so much hi rez source on hand then make some available, get decent resampling and we can all post some foobar2000 ABX results

 

[judgmentday]

  show you can hear it blind, controlled "ears only" listening test - with linear playback equipment that doesn't fold down IMD products to "conventional audio" range
 
if you have so much hi rez source on hand then make some available, get decent resampling and we can all post some foobar2000 ABX results

I have auditioned a full analog setup vs. a full digital setup in the same room and guess what? the full analog setup beats all the time.  I don't do an AB blind digital ****.  I use my ears to judge each direct source.

 

[jcx]

then you don't know anything about actual hearing - only "personal experience" filtered by expectation, bias - psychologically powerful - but well understood and controlled for in Psychoacoustic Science - this is the "Sound Science" Forum after all

 

[RRod]

   
All these components have this frequency response for a reason. Some frequencies you feel them, they make them self present even if our ears would not hear them.
  Wind cannot be heard but can be felt, vibrations cannot be heard but can be felt and so forth.
If we take in count what is already done on Lp recording we can say that the frequency range could be this: 8Hz to 50kHz, the 1812 recording on Telarc goes to 8Hz and the cutting machine on the recording goes to 50kHz: so this is the theorethical frequency range.

Now, which is the frequency range response that we normally heard at home systems?, the answer is a complex one because there are several factors that define that frequency response range: the recording it self, the cartridge, the phonolinepreamp, amplifier, speakers and room interaction.

The whole frequency range response never was/is a problem with the analog reproduction recordings: we have all the " music " frequency range like in a live event
 

 
Telarc cannons were recorded digitally. I don't know the specs of the ADC they used for it, but it's doubtful they were using a sampling rate >=100kHz (necessary to capture 50kHz without aliasing)**. Note of course that all kinds of special care is needed to both cut and play the Telarc 1812 LP, but with digital you just downsample to Redbook, release it on CD, and then play it.
 
Feel free to make any file you want containing only frequency data beyond 20kHz and tell me how high you have to put the volume before you perceive it in any way, and then tell me what would happen if you played your actual music at that volume.
 
Also… you can't hear wind? Wonder what the heck I'm hearing outside right now.
 
**I should have looked at the CD that I have right here… The booklet quotes a "Soundstream Digital Tape Recorder" which, if this is to be believed, operated at 16/50. So even if the cutting machine could do 50kHz, you're not getting that out of the Telarc recording (which is correctly capturing up to only 25kHz).

 

[dprimary]

   
  Vinyl have been recorded @ 122kHz, see this:
http://positive-feedback.com/Issue2/mastering.htm
All these components have this frequency response for a reason. Some frequencies you feel them, they make them self present even if our ears would not hear them.
 

A perfect example of why you need to be extremely careful when dealing with ultrasonics. 120kHz bias making all the way to your speakers is going take out at the very least your HF drivers.
 
There plenty of good reasons to have extended bandwidth, none of them are the reasons(myths) consumers think. 

 

[dprimary]

   

Now, which is the frequency range response that we normally heard at home systems?, the answer is a complex one because there are several factors that define that frequency response range: the recording it self, the cartridge, the phonolinepreamp, amplifier, speakers and room interaction.

The whole frequency range response never was/is a problem with the analog reproduction recordings: we have all the " music " frequency range like in a live event
 
 

Unless you are a not yet a teenager what is heard on any system is roughly 20Hz to 18KHz, if you are close  to 40 for most people it falls off closer to 15KHz.
 
Response over 20Kz has only become common in the last 10 years. In the 60's and 70's 16K was the typical limit.