[bigshot]

What is a "duff turntable"?

See ya
Steve

 

[The23rdman]

Socrates: Yes, I've already had that problem with my Pioneer PL-200x getting damaged in transit. Will always buy local now.

Steve: Must be a UK term! Duff = bad

 

[bigshot]

Well then translating it into "Amuricunn", I would say that there are better Duals for particular purposes... The 1218, 1219, 1228 and 1229 are perfectly suited to use on all formats- 78, hill and dale, coarsegroove and LP. The easily interchangable headshells and relatively broad pitch control are unique features that make them more versatile than other Dual models. I have a 1228 that I use for 78s and diamond disks.

See ya
Steve

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The23rdman /img/forum/go_quote.gif You say you've left obvious brands such as Technics, Dual etc of the list cos they don't make many bad decks. Does this go right across the board and ages? I'd like to look at these manufactures too, but don't want to by one of the rare duffers.

As brands these are all a pretty safe buy especially in the low cost catagory.

Dual always specialised in this end of the market so the differences are mainly in build quality with the older ones being more substantial and getting progressively more plasticky into the 1980's.
The older ones also use idler drives like the Lenco decks which are slightly more complex mechanically and usually offer 3 speeds which you only find on the more deluxe models like the CS-5000 later on. The 80's CS-505 is a budget classic and sounds really impressive for such a cheap deck. They are still sold today but the prices have gone crazy ( 500 Euro or something!)
Avoid the really low end ones from the '80s onwards like the CS-514 unless you get them for peanuts.

Thorens budget classic is the TD150/160 and the varients of this design. It was twice the price of all but the most expensive Dual but sold in such great numbers and for so long that they can often be had cheaply 2nd hand. They were made in various designs between the late 1950's and early 1990's so there are a lot of versions. The cheaper ones have more plastic parts like the subplatter and flimsier cases but the essentials remain basically constant so they are always a good buy and eminently upgradeable.
There are lowlier Thorens of simpler design like the TD-110 again dating from the dawn of the dreaded 1980's which are less good but still worthwhile if cheap enough, and more high-end ones like the TD125/126, which can sometimes be found for little more than the good condition late TD160 or later TD320 for under 500USD. At this kind of price level these are a greater bargain as they are so exquisitely engineered.
Thorens new owner has revived the TD160/320 design but as with Dual ( who actually OEM the basic modern ones like the TD-170/180/190) the prices are exorbitant today.

Bang and Olufsen I discounted on the basis of the replacement stylus costing 150 USD but for this reason sometimes the decks are available for 50USD or something and if you can run to it, at this price they are very worthy contenders, being much better made than most of the the Dual's and Thoren's and sounding as good too, with beautiful Danish design into the bargain.
The more basic tables like the 1800 series are not that far from the really top end B&O like the Beogram 8000 in terms of sound quality, the later simply offering greater automation and convenience, a recipe often utilised at the time by the major Japanese manufactuers as well.
There is actually a lot to be said for bespoke carts which are idiot proof to mount (a concept adopted by Rega), and a good upgrade path is still available via The Soundsmith varients. These are pretty reasonably priced compared to similarly exotic transducers on the market today with ruby cantilevers, like the Dynavector Karat.

Technics of course made more of a range of decks than any of the European manufacturers mentioned above, often just changing the model number but altering little of the fundamental designs which are uniformly good.
They do span a wide range of pricepoints from the entry level basic belt drives like the SL-BD22, which you can still get new in some parts of the world, right upto to the classic broadcast SP10/SL1000 which is a serious collectors item.
The series that the ubiquitous SL1200 came from in the 1970s that went from SL1100-SL1900 are all good 2nd hand buys often found fitted with SME tonearms, as are the underated linear trackers like the SL-5/7/10/15.

The reason I omitted all these though is that you can often save yourself a lot of money, which after all was the idea of this thread, by simply buying the lesser known marques from the same period. This is especially true of the Japanese direct drives which are generally driven by the same Matsu****a (Technics) motors anyway.

 

[The23rdman]

That's great info, Memepool, thanks.

As I've got my Pioneer PL-200x working now I'll keep it on the back burner.

All I need to do now is find the correct connectors for my Mordaunt Short MS40s...

 

[double LL]

Sansui SR-222
Sansui SR-525
Sansui SR-5080
Sansui FR-D3


I'm glad you mentioned the sansui sr-525.I bought 20 pieces of vintage stereo equpment at junk price from a old tv repair sales & service shop that has went out of bussiness after nearly 50 years.The owner was nice enough to let me look around and freely choose whatever I wanted from the back of his shop.I ended up with two reel to reels, a sony tc 440,akai gx 370,and the sansui 525TT,plus the other things .I did'nt think the sansui would work ,so I looked at the headshell and the wires were messed up.I took a cartridge and headshell from a technics SL-B2,pluged the TT up and it started spinning,but if I tried to adjust the pitch it would turn very rapidly and the speed was hard to adjust.So I felt that if I let it run a while,it would come around but it did'nt. I thought the motor was probably gone by now ,but the TT was dirty from sitting in that shop for who knows how long,so I cleaned it up and let it run some more and the 33 speed started to level out on the strobe ,so I turned it off and turned the two separate pitch controls back and forth about 250 times apiece(to clean out any existing corrosion inside the switches),and both speeds leveled out and I have ended up with one of the best sansui TTs that have ever been ade for about $2.50.Double LL

 

[double LL]

error

 

[indysmith]

I have access to a Pioneer PL-720 and a PL-320 both very cheaply. Are these 'good' turntables (i.e. in the same league as the other mentioned Pioneer ones in this thread)? Which is better? Both the same price.

EDIT: Also, is there headphone outputs on these models?

 

[double LL]

Quote:

Originally Posted by indysmith /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have access to a Pioneer PL-720 and a PL-320 both very cheaply. Are these 'good' turntables (i.e. in the same league as the other mentioned Pioneer ones in this thread)? Which is better? Both the same price. EDIT: Also, is there headphone outputs on these models?

The Pioneer PL series TTs in general are known to to be great TTs,as far as the vintage ones are concerned. LL

 

[robbmcaulay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lini /img/forum/go_quote.gif Afair, that was one of Sony's first direct drives and quite a massive thingy. For 50 bucks - why not, I'd say.

The 5520 is a belt-driven TT.

I've noticed when syncing the same song, one on vinyl on my 5520, and then again on my mp3 player. When I switch between the two sources the TT runs a little too fast.

Is there anything I can do about this?

[size=xx-small]I'm on the hunt for a Pro-ject RPM 4 w/speed box so this isn't essential, but i'd like to fix it up and pass it on...[/size]

 

[lini]

Quote:

Originally Posted by robbmcaulay /img/forum/go_quote.gif The 5520 is a belt-driven TT. (...)

Well, I fear there might have been two sorts of 5520s then - the ones I meant looked like this:

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[indysmith]

Does anybody have pictures of the rear outputs on PL-12D? I can't seem to find any on the net. thanks

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by indysmith /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have access to a Pioneer PL-720 and a PL-320 both very cheaply. Are these 'good' turntables (i.e. in the same league as the other mentioned Pioneer ones in this thread)? Which is better? Both the same price.

These are slightly later than the ones I mentioned from the 1981 range and not quite so well regarded as the earlier models. They should be available for 50USD or thereabouts for which price they aren't bad value, certainly as good or better than what you might find new to buy today for under 300USD.

The main caveats are that they are totally automatic unlike the earlier ones so more likely to have issues with spares should anything go wrong and also that the tonearms are very low mass so finding a cartridge to match is more difficult (but by no means impossible) these days.

The PL-730 looks pretty interesting with its graphite composite tonearm and Pioneer Moving Coil cart. The later is a removable stylus type as well which is rare but you can still get original spares.

If you are in the UK or continental Europe I'd go for a Dual CS-505-2 which can be had for even less and is a much finer turntable or else a Goldring-Lenco GL-75 or 78 which will be slightly more expensive but still very affordable. The Lenco may look old fashioned but it's a heavily engineered Swiss made deck which will sound lovely in stock form but can be upgraded massively into a proper high end turntable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by indysmith /img/forum/go_quote.gif is there headphone outputs on these models ?

As far as this goes the only types of turntables which have built-in headphone
amps are portables. There is the famous Audio Technica Soundburger and Sony made some nice ones like the 'Flamingo' PS-F5 / F9 or PS-Q7. Numark make a modern one but the quality is nowhere as good as a full sized deck as these are primarily designed for taking to record fairs etc.

To listen to a conventional turntable via headphones you'll need an integrated amp with a phonostage and headphone amp or else a separate phono preamp to plug into your existing headphone set up if you have one.

You can find a decent old NAD 3030 integrated or similar on ebay which will fulfil both functions.

 

[lini]

Quote:

Originally Posted by memepool /img/forum/go_quote.gif (...) If you are in the UK or continental Europe I'd go for a Dual CS-505-2 which can be had for even less and is a much finer turntable (...)

I'd rather recommend to go for the CS505-3 and first generation (!, rubber mat & best stock cartridge) CS505-4 - these are the versions with the best drives of all 505 incarnations. The 505-2s and second generation, still built 505-4s aren't only slightly less good, though.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[SK138]

Do you mean this angle?

Quote:

Originally Posted by indysmith /img/forum/go_quote.gif Does anybody have pictures of the rear outputs on PL-12D? I can't seem to find any on the net. thanks