[daggerlee]

Thanks for the help memepool and lini. Unfortunately it looks like neither of the two sellers are responding to emails, so I guess they have been sold. However a Dual 1245 has just surfaced - am pursuing as I type. Hopefully I'll have my first deck pretty soon

 

[gevorg]

.

 

[jamesb]

yay Lenco!

they are cheap (getting more expensive though

) but usually require some work - the standard tonearm is usually not working so most people replace it, but that does lead to some difficulties finding an arm the right length and, even more difficult, one that lets you get the tonearm parallel with the record (correct VTA)

for anyone interested in fixing up a lenco, this site : http://www.lenco-lovers.com/forum/ has loads of helpful people and information.

thought i would mention that since the lenco is probably a bit more work than most of the other turntables on the list (but totally worth it imho)

(i had a pioneer pl-200, dont know what the difference with the pl-200x is, but the lenco blows the pl-200 out the water)

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gevorg /img/forum/go_quote.gif I understand the value of a vintage turntable, but is there a difference between vintage and new (under $500) in terms of how careful they are with records? Or its all about the cartridge/stylus being used?

Taking something like the Pro-Ject Debut / Music Hall as the baseline for Hi-Fi like levels of performance today, the idea was to make a list of entry level hi-fi decks which would be available for next to nothing and be better than decks you can buy new today upto this price point (and beyond in many cases).

Some of the decks like the Lenco are capable of much greater things with a bit of uprading, as jamesb mentions, but even in stock form I have found the L75 to be a very satisfying performer.

For the most part the list is made up of the decks recommended as "Best Buys" by the UK magazine Hi-Fi Choice between 1977-1980. Their criteria for this would be exceptional performance at a reasonable price at the time. The average cost then was 50-150UKP, when the Pioneer PL12D cost around 50UKP, The Rega Planar 2 80UKP and the Linn Sondek LP12 250UKP.
I also included decks they recommended generally regardless of price and others which they found to be good performers, but omitted on a value for money basis. I saw no point in putting in the very basic decks like BSR / Garrard autochangers (although they recomended some of these as being good value but not strictly Hi-Fi at the time) when these days often a top Pioneer from a given range like the PL550 will not cost any more than the bottom PL510. The difference was usually in terms of automatic features so I only included these kinds of decks where they said performace wasn't affected. Some of these may be collectable like the Sony PS-5520 if it was their first direct drive.

In performance terms the Pioneer PL12D would be much better built than a Project Debut but might sound a little old fashioned to somebody who has grown up with CD, whereas a more modern sounding deck like the Rega's (although essentially unchanged since 1984) with RB250 type single casting tonearms would sound much more contemporary.

I suspect if you rewired the tonearm on the PL12D it would improve it greatly as the quality of wiring has improved hugely as a byproduct of the computer industry.

To protect your records buying a new stylus, if you pick up an old deck like this, is more or less mandatory (if you can find an original or good quality aftermarket one). Otherwise a modern cartridge will usually be much better quality.

Some of the tonearms on these decks take a bit of care matching but something like a Shure M97 or Audio Technica 440 would be much better than most of the carts available in the 1970's for reasonable money.

 

[ssportclay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesb /img/forum/go_quote.gif yay Lenco! they are cheap (getting more expensive though ) but usually require some work - the standard tonearm is usually not working so most people replace it, but that does lead to some difficulties finding an arm the right length and, even more difficult, one that lets you get the tonearm parallel with the record (correct VTA) for anyone interested in fixing up a lenco, this site : http://www.lenco-lovers.com/forum/ has loads of helpful people and information. thought i would mention that since the lenco is probably a bit more work than most of the other turntables on the list (but totally worth it imho) (i had a pioneer pl-200, dont know what the difference with the pl-200x is, but the lenco blows the pl-200 out the water)

The current Jean Nantais plinth method is to turn the table 90 degrees and mount the tonearm in a hole on the plinth itself. This eliminates the need to chop the corner off the top plate and allows for a larger heavier plinth.With this method you can use any tonearm you like with increased insulation from the top plate.Direct Coupling is also recommended which amounts to glass bedding the top plate to the plinth.Make sure to coat the top plate with release agent before the bedding process so that the top plate can be removed once the bedding compound hardens.

 

[daggerlee]

Just bought a Dual 1245 off of CL for $40, very excited

Still a bit of a turntable newb - any resources I should check out?

 

[jamesb]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssportclay /img/forum/go_quote.gif The current Jean Nantais plinth method is to turn the table 90 degrees and mount the tonearm in a hole on the plinth itself. This eliminates the need to chop the corner off the top plate and allows for a larger heavier plinth.With this method you can use any tonearm you like with increased insulation from the top plate.Direct Coupling is also recommended which amounts to glass bedding the top plate to the plinth.Make sure to coat the top plate with release agent before the bedding process so that the top plate can be removed once the bedding compound hardens.

chopping off the corner always seemed like a bad idea to me - you loose a lot of rigidity in an already flimsy top plate. i think the best method i have seen is to replace the top plate with a new thicker steel one and put it on new plinth. This eliminates many of the problems involved with attaching the old top plate to a new pinth. I'm no expert but the thinking was that you want to isolate the motor from everything else but make sure the tonearm and bearing are solidly connected.

These methods all require quite a bit of work though, so its important to remeber that the lencos do sound good without new plinths

i'm going to replinth mine this summer, and hopefully get in on the second round of custom top plates. I'll post pictures if it ever gets done

 

[jamesb]

Quote:

Originally Posted by daggerlee /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just bought a Dual 1245 off of CL for $40, very excited Still a bit of a turntable newb - any resources I should check out?

http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/d.pl?...faq.html#vinyl

lots of information about setup and alignment, which is the most tricky thing to do yourself at the start, imho

 

[ssportclay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesb /img/forum/go_quote.gif chopping off the corner always seemed like a bad idea to me - you loose a lot of rigidity in an already flimsy top plate. i think the best method i have seen is to replace the top plate with a new thicker steel one and put it on new plinth. This eliminates many of the problems involved with attaching the old top plate to a new pinth. I'm no expert but the thinking was that you want to isolate the motor from everything else but make sure the tonearm and bearing are solidly connected. These methods all require quite a bit of work though, so its important to remeber that the lencos do sound good without new plinths i'm going to replinth mine this summer, and hopefully get in on the second round of custom top plates. I'll post pictures if it ever gets done

There is nothing wrong with replacing the top plate if someone is willing to go to the expense and trouble.The idea of glass bedding the top plate to the plinth is to effectively make them one.In other words the entire plinth becomes the top plate if done correctly.Even the thicker top plate will need to be glass bedded to the plinth so nothing really is gained.

 

[daggerlee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesb /img/forum/go_quote.gif http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/d.pl?...faq.html#vinyl lots of information about setup and alignment, which is the most tricky thing to do yourself at the start, imho

Thanks a lot for the link, james

 

[scatterbrain]

Anyone have any experience with the Sansui Turntable Model no. P - 50?

 

[The23rdman]

Memepool : You say you've left obvious brands such as Technics, Dual etc of the list cos they don't make many bad decks. Does this go right across the board and ages? I'd like to look at these manufactures too, but don't want to by one of the rare duffers.

Would it be possible to list the ones to avoid so I don't screw up?

Cheers,

Dean

 

[socrates63]

Dean, I'm guessing that it may be easier for memepool and others if you list the models that you are considering for purchase.

 

[The23rdman]

That's a fair comment, Socrates, but for now I'm just open to the idea. I'll see what's about on ebay, but didn't want to keep bugging people with "Is this any good?" posts if I could have a more definitive idea of what to avoid.

 

[socrates63]

If you can, try to buy local as shipping turntables can be costly, and unless properly packed, the table can be damaged during transit.

I picked up my Pioneer PL-12D from a local seller on craigslist. It took a few weeks but I finally found one in my price range (under $50

) that seemed decent.