Lossless Format With Full Tags and BNC

[Nick63]

Is there hope that some company will come out with a lossles format that has full native tagging and album art within file ability? Aiff does this, but is not well supported. I know many are happy with flac, but I would rather have uncompressed lossless files.

Is a bnc connector worthile over an rca connector for digital? How much better is it if any? I am considering a HiFace, but my dac is rca coax. How much jitter is introduced in a usb device like this when it goes back out through rca coax to the dac?

 

[fenixdown110]

The Hiface has very low to no jitter. Read up on it's specs. BNC is the native connector, so it's slightly better than RCA, however, it won't make a huge difference. You should just match it to your DAC's input.

 

[krmathis]

Something like OggPCM.
PCM audio data in the Ogg container, with metadata and artwork support. Pretty much like Ogg Vorbis and Ogg FLAC, but with uncompressed audio data.

OggPCM - XiphWiki

 

[HeatFan12]

In reference to your second question-

HDMI Cable, Home Theater Accessories, HDMI Products, Cables, Adapters, Video/Audio Switch, Networking, USB, Firewire, Printer Toner, and more!


In reference to your first question- I think I've been waiting about ten years for wav to support tags

I tried AIFF but dropped it after a few months. I keep a folder of all my CD rips w/ cue sheets (wav) for future burning purposes and as a main master, but all of it has been converted to mostly FLAC and WavPack for playback.

 

[fenixdown110]

Monoprice is king! Their products are top notch for next to nothing.

 

[HeatFan12]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenixdown110 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Monoprice is king! Their products are top notch for next to nothing.

I love buying from them. Great service and fast shipping...And of course their prices...

 

[fenixdown110]

I remember getting a top grade HDMI cable and RCA interconnects for both under 15 dollars. haha And they matched or exceeded the performance of the expensive interconnects my friend has. He almost killed me for pointing that out and showing him. haha

 

[UNHchabo]

I think krmathis is right; OggPCM sounds like exactly what you're looking for.

If I may ask though -- what's the reason you don't want to use lossless compression? On average it would take up about half the space of the uncompressed music, with no loss of quality.

 

[Nick63]

What players will playback OggPcm? I rip and encode with Dbpoweramp and don't see OggPcm as an option. What rippers can output OggPcm?

From some posts here it seems like the idea is to use the HiFace with bnc and get a cable that is bnc to rca. If I keep rca in the chain even at one connection doesn't that defeat the purpose? Maybe HiFace all rca would be the way for me to go.

I have no lack of hard drive space and it seems that uncompressed lossless would mean no cpu usage for decoding during playback. Even though there is no proof it sounds better than lossless compressed files there would be no question. I have read some saying they hear a difference between flac and wav. The most understandable reason for others is that I play my music on different systems and on one I use WMP which does not play flac without adding directshow filters which I do not want to add. This may be moot as a new format would need to play in WMP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNHchabo /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think krmathis is right; OggPCM sounds like exactly what you're looking for. If I may ask though -- what's the reason you don't want to use lossless compression? On average it would take up about half the space of the uncompressed music, with no loss of quality.

 

[HeatFan12]

Hello Nick

For OggPCM the support is very limited. Good concept, but no support to various media players, might as well go with wav. Wav64 is also an option that dbPoweramp supports, but good luck on playing the files.

I included a link for BNC to RCA cables above. I have these cables and I also have BNC to BNC cables, RCA to RCA coax cables and I also use an RCA to RCA coax cable with an xlr adapter for one of my converters. I use them with various DACs and/or usb to spdif converters etc.. BNC is coaxial/digital.

Quote:

BNC Cables BNC stands for Bayonet Neill-Concelman and it was named after the cable's inventors. The BNC cable uses a small needle that resembles a coaxial cable needle. This is surrounded by a white cylinder casing that is surrounded by small metal pieces. The BNC cables connect by attaching in and twisting the cable. BNC cables are used for many professional production equipment. TV studios, news studios or live feeds are often run using BNC cables. They offer a reliable connection and can adapt to multiple inputs and outputs. RCA Cables Consumer products mainly work by using RCA cables. RCA cables are named after the RCA Company, which invented them. The standard three-colored RCA cable features red, white and yellow connecters with a thick connection pin that sticks out. More complicated connections, like surround sound, rely on multiple-colored RCA cables that include blue, gray, green and brown. Each separate audio and video component needs an RCA adapter, so a large setup will require a lot of cables. Adapters Even though RCA and BNC cables are made for specific products, they can be adapted to multiple forms of electronics. Adapters are available that can be used to interchange BNC and RCA connections or to use the connections with other electronics. For example, a BNC cable can be converted to an Ipod adapter by simply using an adapter. The adapters make these cables universal in many aspects of audio and video. Male/Female RCA and BNC cables and connectors are often referred to as either "male" or "female" cables. Male cables are the cables that have a pin. Female cables have the hole for the male cables to connect to. This makes purchasing, wiring and working with the cables easier by referring to their specific "gender." Adapters can also be used to convert a male plug to a female plug and female to male. Future Uses While RCA and BNC cables are still reliable, advances in technology have led to more sophisticated cables taking over. While video game systems, VCRs and other TV components have relied on RCA cables, new HDMI cables have taken over because of their high definition quality. BNC cables are still heavily used in television studios and productions, but alternatives like the TNC connector, LEMO connectors and Twin BNC connectors.

I notice no difference in sound between the two. Of course, some will hear differences and that's fine. For audio purposes, think of BNC as a coax cable with a different connector. I have switched back many times looking for it and have not found any differences.

Concentrate or your equipment first.

In reference to FLAC/WavPack vs. wav/AIFF in sound quality- Think of lossless encoders as WinRar/WinZip files. The original is intact, just smaller, with no artifacts lost.

 

[swmtnbiker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeatFan12 /img/forum/go_quote.gif For audio purposes, think of BNC as a coax cable with a different connector. I have switched back many times looking for it and have not found any differences.

That's exactly correct. BNC and RCA connectors are made for use with the same wire, typically coaxial cable (RG6, RG6Q, Mini-RG6 etc.) BNC is more frequently used in professional applications because the connector actually locks to the equipment interface with a pin and groove mechanism, making it much more reliable and less prone to accidental disconnection.

 

[Roseval]

RCA or BNC is about impedance matching.
SPDIF requires 75 Ohm
In principle a BNC is the better plug in this aspect.
If you are able to hear the difference in practice is a different matter, you probably need to use a long run of cable to notice any effect.

Lossless compressed or uncompressed.
A nice one. There are claims that the additional CPU load to uncompress has a negative impact on sound quality so uncompressed should be better
There are also claims that reading from a HD during play back has a negative impact on sound quality. Lossless compression in general reduces file size by 60% so substantial less I/O so lossless compression should be better.
Not to mention what happens if you use a memory player, loading the entire song in memory first before playback starts...

 

[m1abrams]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roseval /img/forum/go_quote.gif Lossless compressed or uncompressed. A nice one. There are claims that the additional CPU load to uncompress has a negative impact on sound quality so uncompressed should be better There are also claims that reading from a HD during play back has a negative impact on sound quality. Lossless compression in general reduces file size by 60% so substantial less I/O so lossless compression should be better. Not to mention what happens if you use a memory player, loading the entire song in memory first before playback starts...

Yep I always laugh a little inside at the logic of uncompressed sounding better than compressed because you put extra load on the CPU. First off even with uncompressed the CPU is still taxed some with just the job of reading the files. And which do you think would have more chance of imparting unwanted noise? A solid-state device or a spinning magnetic wheel with a armature sliding back and forth?

 

[Redo]

Use FLAC, don't worry about the CPU load effecting your sound. If that was the case, moving your mouse or opening your browser would effect your sound as well. Going for a dedicated CD player would be your best route. But if your computer is on the electrical load the PC is using could slightly alter the power going to the CD player and alter the sound that way too....

It's all bunk. Go FLAC and don't read any of Patrick's posts regarding FLAC vs WAV

 

[Nick63]

I really appreciate the fact many responded to my questions. For the record I know what a bnc connector is and the difference between compressed and non compressed files. I got the impression my origianl post left some ewith the idea I didn't. I supopose some of you guys figured a lot of people don't. I was only wondering if there was any clear evidence or strong opinions on whether bnc provides better sound. I do find the suggestion that compressed files may be less hardware intensive very interesting. I have been using WMA lossless mainly as it also plays in WMP. I think I may just give up WMP and go with flac. I stilll would like to have a lossless format with good tagging and album art for the archive that is well supported{sucks thumb}.
Thanks for all the input.