[ProtegeManiac]

Yes thank you for the response. I meant the source signal being flat, eg. the mp3 file lol.

No, your audio file is not meant to be flat. If it's flat then the vocals and the bass drum and bass guitar would all be fighting for attention with the guitars. That's basically what I said should not and can not be flat. You're quashing dynamic range too.

It's not the file but the way that file is converted into an analogue signal that must, at least ideally, be kept flat, ie, whatever software or hardware you use should not alter what is in that MP3 or FLAC or whatever audio file. One exception is the use of digital EQ to compensate for drivers that do not have a flat response - not that you can make them absolutely flat, but at least make the curve smoother.

I feel I shouldn't go crazy on IEMS because I tend to break the cables in my pocket, or they could get stolen or misplaced(never happened before tho).

Even cheap IEMs like the $20 KZ ZST have detachable cables. And since they're cheap, you can easily buy another one. And the difference between a $20 ZST and a $100 SE215 isn't exactly drastic.

You can probably start with the ZST and then just return them if they don't fit or upgrade later, at least then you'd have some reference for what you'd want to improve on and others can comment if they think the improvements to whatever you might look at for the upgrade is worth the cost.

 

[flamesofarctica]

Yes thank you for the response. I meant the source signal being flat, eg. the mp3 file lol.

It's a little overwhelming and intimidating since I never spent more than 40$ on IEMS LOL. Idk if I should save or flirt with CIEMS.

I feel I shouldn't go crazy on IEMS because I tend to break the cables in my pocket, or they could get stolen or misplaced(never happened before tho).

I like that the Orions and New Primacy have replaceable cables tho, one of the reasons why I flirted with the idea of cans.

If you pay a fair amount for IEMs, get a cheap case, don't just put them in your pocket..doesn't matter how good they are if they break. Got stressed just reading that, my other half gets through a set a week, and mine never seem to break, guess why l

I even keep cheap £3 earbuds in a case, and I certainly don't have anything above the lower end of your budget (I go for quantity above quality!! Chinese budget gear all the way...)

 

[serman005]

How do they compare against the Oriveti New Primacy?

I haven't heard the Oriveti--sorry. I hear very good things about it.

 

[Muzyka]

No, your audio file is not meant to be flat. If it's flat then the vocals and the bass drum and bass guitar would all be fighting for attention with the guitars. That's basically what I said should not and can not be flat. You're quashing dynamic range too.

It's not the file but the way that file is converted into an analogue signal that must, at least ideally, be kept flat, ie, whatever software or hardware you use should not alter what is in that MP3 or FLAC or whatever audio file. One exception is the use of digital EQ to compensate for drivers that do not have a flat response - not that you can make them absolutely flat, but at least make the curve smoother.




Even cheap IEMs like the $20 KZ ZST have detachable cables. And since they're cheap, you can easily buy another one. And the difference between a $20 ZST and a $100 SE215 isn't exactly drastic.

You can probably start with the ZST and then just return them if they don't fit or upgrade later, at least then you'd have some reference for what you'd want to improve on and others can comment if they think the improvements to whatever you might look at for the upgrade is worth the cost.

Yes, sorry. I know what you mean. Trying to learn some of the terminology

The KZ ZST seem too good to be true, and I know somethings can have crazy markup like Beats but I also know you get what you pay for. Are they really that good? I mean 20$ is 20$ and I won't really lose sleep over it, but no point buying it if I'd upgrade right away.

Hopefully I can get around to going to Manhattan and seeing some IEMS in a store. Worried about fit moreso then sound tbh lol.

 

[Muzyka]

I haven't heard the Oriveti--sorry. I hear very good things about it.

Hmm they are a triple driver and the Orion is a single BA?

I read more drivers are better, though aren't always used properly. I feel as if the Orion's are invalidating that claim. I assume driver qualities vary and Orion made one really stellar?

 

[serman005]

Hmm they are a triple driver and the Orion is a single BA?

I read more drivers are better, though aren't always used properly. I feel as if the Orion's are invalidating that claim. I assume driver qualities vary and Orion made one really stellar?

Yes, the Oriveti is a hybrid BA/dynamic driver unit. As you point out, the Orion is a single BA driver. I don't think it is fair in this day and age to generalize that more drivers always and necessarily = better sound. There are many outstanding single-driver units on the market. The Orion does shine, I agree, even though it is a single BA. FWIW.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

The KZ ZST seem too good to be true, and I know somethings can have crazy markup like Beats but I also know you get what you pay for. Are they really that good? I mean 20$ is 20$ and I won't really lose sleep over it, but no point buying it if I'd upgrade right away.

My brother bought one, he wasn't home and asked our Dad to test it so it can be returned ASAP if it was faulty. Our Dad ended up ordering one hours later.

For you though the main point is to pin point what you'd want to improve over it, that way people will have some kind of reference. You can say for example you like metal, but people don't prefer the exact same headphones and IEMs for metal. Everybody will go "GRADO!!!!!" for headphones but if I listen to metal with these everything seems like they're getting thrown at you instead of being laid out on a stage. It's like a punchee's view of a fast punching anime ninja, like Simone and Mark and the entire symphony are jumping at you with every note.

And that's just headphone sound, we're not even on fit yet. At the very least if this $20 IEM doesn't fit you then you'd probably have to stay away from similar shell designs, and you're only out by $20.

 

[Muzyka]

My brother bought one, he wasn't home and asked our Dad to test it so it can be returned ASAP if it was faulty. Our Dad ended up ordering one hours later.

For you though the main point is to pin point what you'd want to improve over it, that way people will have some kind of reference. You can say for example you like metal, but people don't prefer the exact same headphones and IEMs for metal. Everybody will go "GRADO!!!!!" for headphones but if I listen to metal with these everything seems like they're getting thrown at you instead of being laid out on a stage. It's like a punchee's view of a fast punching anime ninja, like Simone and Mark and the entire symphony are jumping at you with every note.

And that's just headphone sound, we're not even on fit yet. At the very least if this $20 IEM doesn't fit you then you'd probably have to stay away from similar shell designs, and you're only out by $20.

True, but I do have a current pair of IEMs. Perhaps I should have mentioned...

I have a pair of Beats Powerbeats that I found and were never claimed so I got to keep them. They're alright, the left one strains the outer lobe of my ear at times but otherwise they stay in rather fine. The audio quality is meh, I would never pay for them. The vocals are pretty clear but the the instruments feel a little muddy or blured together. I feel the cymbals sound muddy, and I can't hear too much of the bass guitar. The guitar however, is rather clear. It's better than average headphones, but nothing exceptional.

Improvement wise I would like gear that separates the instruments and sounds from one each other and gives space to them each while offering a much more brighter, deeper and overall more clear sound of each instrument rather than blending them together.

Edit: Oh! Definitely with better isolation too!

 

[ProtegeManiac]

True, but I do have a current pair of IEMs. Perhaps I should have mentioned...

Well here's something that some who might have tried them can use as a reference.

I have a pair of Beats Powerbeats that I found and were never claimed so I got to keep them...The audio quality is meh, I would never pay for them. The vocals are pretty clear but the the instruments feel a little muddy or blured together. I feel the cymbals sound muddy, and I can't hear too much of the bass guitar. The guitar however, is rather clear. It's better than average headphones, but nothing exceptional.

Improvement wise I would like gear that separates the instruments and sounds from one each other and gives space to them each while offering a much more brighter, deeper and overall more clear sound of each instrument rather than blending them together.

I'm going to guess the KZ ZST is only slightly better, but its selling point is the ergonomics and the fact that they cost a fraction of the Beats.

If you want more instrument separation go with something more like the Shure SE425 or Westone W20. And if possible use Crossfeed (like on some player apps). Some of the problems with separation stems from the lack of depth on headphone audio because each ear only hears the driver on its side, so apart from some having a tendency to have strong L-C-R but weak between L-C and C-R (instead of a coherently laid out stage), you get no sense of depth at all, if not simply push everything forward.

They're alright, the left one strains the outer lobe of my ear at times but otherwise they stay in rather fine.
---
Edit: Oh! Definitely with better isolation too!

Fit and isolation go hand in hand. If it doesn't fit right then it can't even begin to seal the ear properly, or maybe it can initially but then slips out as in your case. And then there's that problem of straining your earlobes - if those sounded a lot better you still would be frustrated using them because of that.

 

[Muzyka]

...

Thanks for the feedback.

I went to audio64 and tried the shure2e215 and wasn't satisfied . I really liked the w30s by westone. The w30s maybe even more ... The w50 too.....

Ugh...need time to think , but I felt those offered the best sound. I felt they were pricey tho ,and I could find better for cheaper. The w60s at 999 are way too much IMO.

Anyone have preferred recommendations that are similar to the w30s-w60s?

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Thanks for the feedback.

I went to audio64 and tried the shure2e215 and wasn't satisfied . I really liked the w30s by westone. The w30s maybe even more ... The w50 too.....

Ugh...need time to think , but I felt those offered the best sound. I felt they were pricey tho ,and I could find better for cheaper. The w60s at 999 are way too much IMO.

Anyone have preferred recommendations that are similar to the w30s-w60s?

Closest thing would likely be the W20 for $200.

 

[Muzyka]

Closest thing would likely be the W20 for $200.

You know after going to the store today I realize this question isn't really cut and dry.

There's a lot of information I learned from here today,but I realized sound is super subjective. Many recommended shures and when I tried them you know what ? I found them distasteful.

Everyone is going to recommend their favorite headphone ,but it seems this is really trail and error because your favorite might be someone's dislike ,and vice versa. Might be best to learn and be able to describe my desire in sound so that others can relate and help me out . That seems to be the only way.

Crazy. If anyone knows any stores that lets you test IEMS in NYC before you buy from them that would be great! Audio64 had a small collection, I'm going to call B&H tmrw and see if they got anything.

Thanks for everybody's help

 

[vkalia]

Honestly, i disagree with the idea of sound being flat - atleast for what i consider reference: the sound of unamplified instruments as heard live. In a concert hall, treble falls off more, bass resonates in the hall (ie, there is no such thing as "tight" bass), etc. etc. Where/how concerts are miked and where the listener sits both have very different sound signatures (and yes, where you sit in a concert hall also affects the sound - some sections have better balanced acoustics than others. So right there, flat output goes for a toss.

Add to that the fact that the same output signal will be perceived differently from a speaker when compared to headphones due to the response curve of head/ear "listening room": so a linear response does not work inside the ear canal.

Lastly, the recorder doesnt record the input signal perfectly (any more than a speaker outputs the music signal perfectly). Trying to perfectly re-create this sound means you are setting as your goal something that is inherently flawed. Plus, we listen to music because of the emotional response it generates in us - so why is "accurate" necessarily better? Violins in a concert hall sound amazing - violins on a speaker that is flat in the trebles make me want to stab my eardrums with burning punji sticks. Tell me again why that is desirable?

Yes, a linear response curve makes it easier to set a design target as opposed to "sounds real" (to whom? Seated where?) - but IMO, just because the better method is harder to quantify doesnt mean that it should be ignored.

Now, all of this is where there is a reference. For amplified music, there is an argument to be made that the way the music was mixed is how the artist wants you to hear it. But even there, i would argue that blind adherence to this principle doesnt always make for a pleasurable listening experience (Metallica also wanted me to listen to St Anger. 'Nuff said).

Anyway, to answer your question: i will suggest something with extended bass (I have never been to a metal concert and heard tight bass there, either), rich midrange and smooth/warm/somewhat rolled off treble. To me, that sounds the most "lifelike" with all sorts of music, even though it may not meet audiophile standards of air, transparency, soundstage (haha. On headphones. Haha) or imaging (haha. On headphones. Haha).

YMMV, obviously