[Methos1979]

My son just graduated from college and got a job at a local live music/theater venue that hosts all kinds of shows. He's the audio guy and runs the board. He mixes everything from live bands to plays to movies. For his birthday I'd like to get him a nice pair of headphones for this job. What is out there that is the best bang for the buck quality-wise these days in the under-$200 price range? It's been so long since I've been down this road. I did a few searches here for best headphones for mixing but the threads were from several years ago. What's new and improved or still available as a standard for this type of live venue mixing?

 

[cel4145]

This thread might help: http://www.head-fi.org/t/702924/best-studio-headphones

 

[RonaldDumsfeld]

There are basically three classes of pro audio headphones.
 
1. The ones the talent wears when recording or performing.
 
These tend to be hard wearing, inexpensive, comfortable and have good isolation. Generally over ear , closed back designs. Impedance tends to be high (~600 Ohm) and sensitivity low as traditionally several could be directly connected to the monitor mix output without affecting the main signal. Generally fairly flat FR but costs in other areas preclude them from being top class for listening.
 
Classic reference design in your price range are the Beyer DT100. Look them up. You will instantly recognise them.
 
2. The ones the recording engineer, outside broadcast tech or DJ uses when recording or performing. Known as tracking cans.
 
These are hard wearing, light, have good isolation (vital) and convenient to carry around, Generally over ear and closed back. Often have one earpiece on a swivel so the engineer can listen to live and monitor mix simultaneously when required. Need to go loud so often have relatively low impedance (~80 Ohm) and high sensitivity. Again usually fairly flat FR but not as detailed as more expensive models.
 
Classic reference design at your price point are the Sennheisser HD 25 1 ii. You will recognise the distinctive split headband.
 
3. The ones producers and mix down/mastering engineers use when they cannot use real monitors for some reason.
 
These tend to be open backed, over ear designs. Often similar or even identical to expensive but not silly priced audiophile cans. These tend to be medium sensitivity and impedance (~300Ohm). Very high levels of detail in the midrange. Pro audio versions tend to have less but more agile and accurate bass than similar hi-fi grade models.
 
The classic reference hear (sic) are Sennheisser  HD 650 but they are way over your budget and so HD 558 might be a better bet. A lot less money and pretty similar response up to 10kHz.
 
Everyone's taste varies. People tend to be brand loyal but for what it's worth when doing the sort of work your son does I personally use a pair of Senn HD25-1 ii when at home or work. Although I must admit I'm a bit skint so I keep a pair of cheaper but almost as good Sony MDR 7506 ( =  MDR V6) when I'm out and about and worried about breaking, losing or having my headphones nicked.  

 

[Methos1979]

Thanks for the info. I looked at the Senn HD558's but I'm pretty sure he needs the isolation of closed back. So I'm looking at the Senn HD 380 Pro's - any opinions on those? They are in our price range.

 

[RonaldDumsfeld]

Sorry. I buy my headphones on the basis that if thousands of professional people all over the world can use them as part of their working lives and get good results then I should be able to make them work for me as well. So it's herd mentality rather than hours and hours of exhaustive comparative trials. If my HD25 break or disappear I simply buy another pair 'cos I'm used to them.
 
I'm sure others can chime in here about particular models.
 
Oh one last tip. try and avoid anything with very low impedance (<60 Ohms). He will not have much choice what he plugs them into and since a lot of pro gear has a relatively high output impedance still his FR may vary. Which he doesn't want.
 
p.s. You said $200. HD25-1 ii are an industry standard and cost $220 online. Not bad for finishing college and getting a job, plus it's his birthday......
 
If you really only want to spend $100 then, likesay above, I'd go for Sony MDR7506 (or MDR V6 depending where you live). Both 63 Ohm impedance.
 
But don't take my word for it. I'm just recommending what I know 'cos it woks for me. Others will have their own opinion which will be just as valid.
 
ed: rd added ps.
 
ed: rd added impedance figure.

 

[Methos1979]

The Sony's are only 50 input impedance so I should avoid those by your reasoning.
 
The Senn HD25 seem like they are small-ish and more on-ear then over-ear. How about the Senn HD25SP II's? They seem larger, more over-ear and have a higher impedance at 80 then the HP25 II's at 70. 
 
I appreciate the info. I'm in a time crunch now so need something available to ship from Amazon Prime for 2 days.

 

[RonaldDumsfeld]

I'm pretty relaxed about the impedance matching issue myself. I only mentioned it before someone else did.
 
It's not snake oil like cables, DAC chips or amps but it makes surprising little difference really given the attention it gets as flavour of the month, scare the punters material. The designers know what impedance they are likely to be used with and provided you start with a fairly flat FR you are usually looking at a max deviation of ~1dB from optimum. For example I cannot hear a difference between my HD25 plugged into  a 35 Ohm and a 2 Ohm output. A chap called xnor taught me how to calculate the effect which turned out to be 0.8dB at 80Hz. Which maybe I should have been able to hear but it is dwarfed by equivalent room effects from loudspeakers which can be 10 or 20 times that.
 
Avoid the HD25SP II (imo). They look similar but break much too easily in my experience. It's a classic false economy.
 
Don't worry about the on ear vs over ear. HD25 are famous for their isolation. Check the reviews. That's why they are perennially popular. DJs use them in clubs and you know you can hear them even when it's 120dB outside...

 

[MWright]

I was with you until your comments regarding "snake oil."  If more engineers took cables and amplifiers more seriously, perhaps we'd have better recordings to listen. It's the height of absurdity in this day and age to say that cable talk should be regarded as "snake oil," and despite the fact that follow your reasoning and can even accept your comments up to that point, you lost me there.  Either changing the cable or adding a 2 meter extension onto a $200 or $2000 pair of headphones is going noticeably alter the headphones characteristics, both in terms of balance of frequency response, forward or backwardness of either solo performances or accompaniment. Everything influences the sound, and admittedly, it's hard to know what is doing what, but real world experimentation with cables and amplifiers, mixing boards, microphones, AND headphones all alter the signal in audible ways, just as much as room treatment.  It's unfortunate, because it adds to the difficulty of coming to any solid conclusions, but that's the world we live in, and we just have make the effort to learn to evaluate what we recording by listening to the final results and a wide range of systems outside the studio and then work backwards comparing all those different experiences to what he hear in the studio. Some will suggest using measurements but I'd say that route is even more flawed. True, people do hear differently but the human ear, in the end, if it is still working properly seems to trump measurements any day of the week. 

I loved your practical suggestions also, don't get me wrong. On the other hand, I think the notion of buying headphones for an engineer is doomed to failure unless the engineer gets to pick them out. A better scenario would be to give the budding engineer a gift card with a pre-paid credit card, and tell them to see if he borrow a few different cans, and discover which one he/she is most appropriate. There are number of intangibles, aside from mating the headphones to the recording equipment, not the least of which is comfort. What I can tolerate for several hours might not "sit right on someone else.  And buying based on what the industry uses may sound like a good idea but then again, it does depend in part, what the equipment is, and what type of music is being recorded and mixed, whether it's live recording of rock, folk, jazz, or classical. I'd give him the credit card and let him/her duke it out by experimentation.  Otherwise, they will be a thoughtful gift, but they will probably end up living in box or drawer with some other "thoughtful gifts."

 

[cel4145]

I'm pretty relaxed about the impedance matching issue myself. I only mentioned it before someone else did.

It's not snake oil like cables, DAC chips or amps but it makes surprising little difference really given the attention it gets as flavour of the month, scare the punters material. The designers know what impedance they are likely to be used with and provided you start with a fairly flat FR you are usually looking at a max deviation of ~1dB from optimum. For example I cannot hear a difference between my HD25 plugged into  a 35 Ohm and a 2 Ohm output. A chap called xnor taught me how to calculate the effect which turned out to be 0.8dB at 80Hz. Which maybe I should have been able to hear but it is dwarfed by equivalent room effects from loudspeakers which can be 10 or 20 times that.

That's not accurate. Some headphones can have significantly more variance that that. It depends on the headphone's resistive load variance relative across different frequencies. And then, of course, it depends on electrical dampening effects, which can be more difficult to predict.

 

[inthere]

Marshall Monitor is what I use for the studio:
 
http://www.amazon.com/Marshall-04090800-Monitor-Headphones/dp/B00D3ITOHG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1435156056&sr=8-1&keywords=marshall+monitor
 
Built like tanks, detachable cables, almost no leakage so if you're right next to the mic none of the music will get recorded by mistake. Great bass extension and bass that never distorts, and if you're stuck with mixing in headphones the high end is slightly rolled off (but not muddy) which is perfect because higher priced cans boost treble to get better soundstages, this leads to muddy mixes. 

 

[RonaldDumsfeld]

Always good to get a variety of opinion.
 
Gift card is a good suggestion. Then again if you go down that route why restrict his options at all? Why not ask him? He probably already has his own preference? Something his mates or a mentor recommends? What's currently cool. He might even get a discount from a lcal store or preferred supplier or know someone selling a pair 2nd hand?.
He might even prefer to spend the money on something we would never think of, perhaps a measurement microphone to help him set up the venue to best effect? 
The important thing is to gift something he will love and cherish. He knows best what that will be.
 
Not to be pedantic but there is an error of fact earlier in the thread which should be corrected.
 
Sony websites give the output impedance of the MDR7506 & MDR V6 as 63 Ohms. Not 50 as previously quoted.
Not far off the HD25 at 70 Ohms. Marchall Monitor is given as 42 Ohms. Which is starting to get a bit low. Even for me.