[IpsilonSound]

Yesterday I accidentally killed my 2-year old Grados during experimenting with opamp replacement for my PPA. The power offset was obviously too high when I turned off the PPA and then one of the driver was sounding quieter than the other. I noticed that the membrane used in Grado is pretty different than used in other brands, it's very rigid and not elastic. If the voltage pushes it high enough away from the magnet, it is deformed and stays that way forever. i could buy another set of Grado locally here for around 120 bucks,but prefer to choose different phone brand, which will be more robust in that respect(can withdraw higher voltage swings, etc.) I especially loved the Grado sound, it's really warm, transparent and clean. I've been looking into AKG series, 240S or 501, but compared with Grado graphs the AKG highs are little recessed. Never heard the AKG before, the local dealer should receive the 240 soon, and I'll go to the store to audition them. Between 501 and 240, which ones sound cleaner?

Can anyone suggest anything which is similiar or close to the Grado sound in the same price range? Thanks.

 

[Permonic]

Alessandro MS-1's shipped for $99 might be a solution to consider if you want to stay with Grado signature.

 

[IpsilonSound]

http://www.alessandro-products.com/headphones.html

Looks like the MS-1 are pretty much the same as Grado-80. I'll probably order them if I don't like AKG 240S.

 

[wallijonn]

Once you become used to the Grado sound few headphones will have that same type of sound signature. The K501 is a totally different beast and it will sound lifeless due to your ear being trained to respond to Grados. The two that may come closest are the ATH A900 and the DT531. But you have to give your brain and mind time to acclimate to the new sound signature. It may therefore be more prudent to have Grado repair your set of headphones or at least have both drivers replaced at the same time to ensure complete compatibility. In this instance you may want to try the SR225 or MS1.

Don't throw away your old set. You can use them for experiments or give them away for their parts. Conceivably you can can make the lone driver into a mono channel and use it for DJ'ing. Or you can use it to test amplifier circuits befoe inserting your prized headphones.

Why replace? UPGRADE instead.

 

[MuZI]

re they beyers close to the Grado sound signature?

 

[pbirkett]

I agree with Wallijonn.

@ Muzi, many of the Beyers really dont sound very alike at all, and none of them really sound like Grado's to my ears. The DT931 perhaps comes the closest to my ears, sounding like a refined, but lean version of the SR80. The DT880 is more refined and laid back than the DT931. The DT831 is the closed version of the DT931 and sound fairly similar. The DT660 and DT860 are the replacements to the DT831 and DT931 and so should sound pretty similar. The DT770 and DT990 (closed and open) are a pretty bass heavy / midrange recessed phone. DT250-250 and DT531 (closed and open) are essentially relatively neutral, but perhaps also the most lively Beyer phones with a natural sound. Then there are many others that I aint heard (like the DT150, which gets good reports in places).

 

[wallijonn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuZI Are the Beyers close to the Grado sound signature?

What do you mean by "close"?

No, certain Beyers are flat and neutral whereas the SR80 has a bloated lower mid bass to give it more "oomph". If you get used to the Grado sound and then switch over to just about any other headphone (the DT770 being an exception) you may perceive them as being bass lite or bright. But you should also discover something called "soundstage" which the SR80 is lacking in. The SR80 is great for gaming though as EAX isn't all that hot now-a-days (there isn't a seamless transition of sound as you pan within a game. You should be able to detect obvious volume changes).

 

[terrymx]

Quote:

I've been looking into AKG series, 240S or 501, but compared with Grado graphs the AKG highs are little recessed.

haha, i actaully dont agree too much with those graphs. dont know about the k240s, but the k501 is all about the high end baby. if you likebass then there are too little for you, but i heard the PPA before and it does add more bass. also some PPA have that bass switch.

dont yell at me for recommending something i havent heard, but i talked to a guy who has both the a900 and grado, and he said he love the a900 for rock just as much as the grados. i wonder if the a500 is similar.

 

[MuZI]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallijonn What do you mean by "close"? No, certain Beyers are flat and neutral whereas the SR80 has a bloated lower mid bass to give it more "oomph". If you get used to the Grado sound and then switch over to just about any other headphone (the DT770 being an exception) you may perceive them as being bass lite or bright. But you should also discover something called "soundstage" which the SR80 is lacking in. The SR80 is great for gaming though as EAX isn't all that hot now-a-days (there isn't a seamless transition of sound as you pan within a game. You should be able to detect obvious volume changes).

So is it close to the Alessandro line up?

 

[wallijonn]

I haven't auditioned the Alessandro line. I have the SR80 and auditioned the Sr325 and RS2. For awhile I was contemplating getting the SR200. Personally I like my DT831 over the SR80. I therefore relegated the SR80 for gaming. Since I modified the SR80 to fit into the Aiwa AK100 housing I was able to tailor the bass so that it wasn't bass bloated. How did I set it? By comparing it to the DT831. It sounds great for gaming.

There's a little controversy on reading graphs (search out the numerous threads which discuss graphs indepth). You do not hear a graph, you hear an overall tonal quality. If the balance is towards the high end we tend to think that it is bright. But one must first allow oneself to become acclimated to the sound. This is why meets can be misleading.

Think of headphones as different vision glasses. You have to have your eyes adjust to each set of eyeglasses. You go to the optometrist and a week later your eyesight has changed. Why? Because your mind has become acclimated to it. You would need to go to the optometrist a few times a year to have perfect eyesight. To keep costs down we usually go once a year.

So don't believe frequency response graphs. There may be a peak and you have hearing loss at that frequency. It may therefore sound flat to you. If there is a dip and you are oversensitive to that frequency it may sound flat to you. If it has a peak and you are sensitive to it it will most likely sound bright to you, or distorted and painful.

If you look at the dip of the DT880, it is probably that dip that makes female vocals sound so good. I am VERY sensitive to the "S" sounds at the ends of female vocals. When I listen to the CD3000, it has a rise in that range. I therefore find the CD3000 to be screechy and painful to listen to for female vocals and speech (like DVD movies).

The best headphone is the one that SOUNDS the best to you, not what frequency response it has. I love the flat frequency response of the HD580, but I can hear the veil of the HD600, so it is out.

If I detect distortion in a headphone I will not buy it. If the bass gives me ear aches I will not buy it. Car sound systems give me headaches from 50 feet away. All I hear is distortion. Inside it may be flat (I doubt it) but outside it sounds like crap.

Forget about response graphs and listen for yourself. Then, and only then, decide.

 

[IpsilonSound]

thanks, wallijonn
I called the local AudioCentre store here to check the prices on Grados, they realize that they are the only distributors of grado phones in the town and their markup is obscene. $190Can for SR-80 and $250 for 125 model.
Another local place has AGK and I'll pay them a visit in a couple of days to audition the 240 and 270 models.

I think, I'll wait a little and decide between AGK and Grado/Alessandro phones.

Thanks everyone.

 

[wallijonn]

Are there any fellow Canadien Head-Fi'ers in your area? You could "hook up" for a mini-meet. If you attend one make sure that you bring some music that you are familiar with and spend some time with each set of headphone. Go in with relaxed eardrums and be very, very, afraid. Once you see all the beautiful toys you may be tempted to go beyond your budget. I know that we have some Head-Fi'ers in Nova Scottia, Toronto, a few on the West Coast... Take a peek at the "Upcoming Meets" section and hopefully one is scheduled in your area. Does Headroom ship to Canada?

 

[Lisa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallijonn Does Headroom ship to Canada?

Yes they do, but not Grados. Grado doesn't want their products to be shipped outside of the US. So we can only buy locally for rediculous prices.
A sr125 here cost €250
€1 = $1.20
So do the math. That's why I have the MS1. I would love to hear the sr225 and rs1 but I don't even want to know their prices here. So I just pretent they don't exist.

 

[slug]

There are many Canadian dealers. I actually got my SR225's locally here in Edmonton for a price cheaper than the prices I found online ($249CAD and didnt have to pay for any shipping charges). I found a few grado dealers here by e-mailing grado directly and they gave me the names of some stores that sell their headphones.

 

[IpsilonSound]

Just to clarify that, sorry for my ignorance.... Are Alessandro headphones related to Grado products? I heard various stories like the drivers for MS1, for example, are made by Grado but the enclosures are different and made by Alessandro team. I already ordered MS1 this noon, but wouldn't like to be dissapointed. Someone could shed the light on this?