[TyTB]

Hello everyone.

I want to start by thanking everyone on this forum for all of the great discussion and education you've all provided me. I have learned a lot, abandoned a lot of old, mistaken ideas, and have really changed in what I'm looking for in an audio setup.

I don't want to take advantage of the Head-Fi Community's kindness, so I'm hoping this will be my last post on the subject.

To keep this short, I am trying to find a well-built, well-measuring DAC and Amp, for around $900 USD or less ($1200 CAD), that is from a brand which has visually-matching, stackable power amps that I can add later, when I want to build up a small near-field speaker setup with a subwoofer.


There are three criteria I'm hoping to meet:

1. Build quality. I am NOT an audiophile like most of the people here. I like good, clean sound, but I do NOT enjoy buying and trying new equipment. I recently got some HD800s, which will be my only headphone purchase for the next 10, 15, 20+ years, or until they break -- whichever comes first. I expect my DAC/Amp stack to last for at LEAST 10-15 years, but really, I see no reason why it shouldn't last forever, until the capacitors reach their chemical end.

2. Transparent, Well-Measuring sound. I don't think I have very discerning ears, so I'm not too worried about having the ABSOLUTE best-measuring stuff out there. I don't necessarily need stuff that would top the charts over at AudioScienceReview, but I am also not interested in, say, an OTL tube amp, and the way they can heavily colour sound. I plan on EQ-ing a lot, so I'd prefer transparency.

3. Clean, Simple, Square-ish Looks, in the colour Black. Brands like Topping, Schiit, JDS Atom, etc. are all great in my opinion in this regard. Brands like Chord or IFI are often not. They look gimmicky to me. I am also not a fan of the "Alibaba Aluminum Project Box" looks of brands like Lake People.


To not waste your time, I have tried to do research on the subject in these forums. Here are my thoughts on some of the popular recommendations:

• I really love the look of the Topping L70 and A90 lines, and they seem to be extremely well-received by the community. However, I have seen a lot of people talking about how Topping's build quality is bad, and their units die often. The A90 Discrete is within my budget, but the matching DAC, the D90, seems to twice as expensive as the Amp. Is this correct? If so, the 90-tier stack is out of my budget. The 70-tier stack seems just as good for me, but there's still the concern over build quality.

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• The JDS atom line is great, nicely-styled, and well-priced, but it doesn't have a lot of inputs and outputs, and there's no matching power amp, so I don't see how I could connect this all together to have both a headphone setup and a near-field 2.1 speaker setup. I also am not opposed to having more overall power for the HD800s, and a fully-balanced system, as this will be for a PC audio environment.

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• SMSL is a brand I don't know much about, but they seem to be reviewed well. It seems like most of their products are beyond my budget, though, and I don't want or really care for the LCD screens that come on a lot of their stuff. Most of the time, I would want that screen off if I had it, and I'm worried about the lifespan of such a screen if it's running for many hours a day across 10, 20, 30 years.

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• Schiit is the brand I was originally drawn to, and put the most time and energy into researching and considering. I would basically be buying a Modius DAC (ES9028 or AKM?), a Jotunheim 2 Amp, and a Gjallarhorn power amp. However, of all the brands above, Schiit measures the worst, by far, and some of their circuitry/approaches seems to be outdated, at least based on what I've read in reviews. Don't know if it's bad enough to matter, though.

Any other recommendations or discussion are greatly appreciated. Thank you all for your ongoing help, learning, and support!

P.S., if you have a recommendation but it costs $1000 instead of $900, don't worry, just recommend it!

P.P.S I am also open to buying a power amp from a different brand than my main stack, so long as it's a nearly-perfect visual / size match.

 

[pbui44]

For what you want, probably this:

https://www.rme-usa.com/adi-2-dac.html

 

[Whazzzup]

So much thought so little budget

 

[davesa]

You may want to give Schiit a try - measuring perfect and sounding good sometimes go together but not always - their top end DAC - the original Yggdrasil does not measure well but their are plenty of people here who think it sounds great - myself included... some of their line is targeted to people that are looking for products that measure well - so if that ranks up in your criteria pick those models

Since you plan on keeping this gear for a long time - the idea of a separate dac and headphone amp may not be the best choice - since you will not likely upgrade one or the other when new tech comes out... the new Topping DX9 combines the original D90 ( akm ) dac and an A90D - it is $1300 USD retail but they do run sales - I just picked mine up during a sale like that for $1130. Still a bit above your budget but the displays are very cool ( although it seems you don't like the displays ). amortized of 10+ years... might not be too much of a stretch. It also has some extra line/preamp outs

 

[TyTB]

For what you want, probably this:

https://www.rme-usa.com/adi-2-dac.html

Hey yeah, I've seen this recommended a lot. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's just a DAC, right? No amp? I'm confused because the literature mentions only a DAC, but it has a volume knob and headphone outputs.

You may want to give Schiit a try - measuring perfect and sounding good sometimes go together but not always - their top end DAC - the original Yggdrasil does not measure well but their are plenty of people here who think it sounds great - myself included... some of their line is targeted to people that are looking for products that measure well - so if that ranks up in your criteria pick those models

Since you plan on keeping this gear for a long time - the idea of a separate dac and headphone amp may not be the best choice - since you will not likely upgrade one or the other when new tech comes out... the new Topping DX9 combines the original D90 ( akm ) dac and an A90D - it is $1300 USD retail but they do run sales - I just picked mine up during a sale like that for $1130. Still a bit above your budget but the displays are very cool ( although it seems you don't like the displays ). amortized of 10+ years... might not be too much of a stretch. It also has some extra line/preamp outs

Yeah, like I said Schiit is the brand I was most seriously considering originally. Made in the US, supposedly good reliability per the community, and good sound, even if not technically the best-measuring. I feel like it's going to be a lot more reliable than the topping products.

I'm okay with a separate DAC and amp because 1) I will never upgrade unless a unit dies. I'm not a gear head, and won't be upgrading gear until and unless I absolutely have to, and 2) there seems to be a consensus that separate electronics are better than combo units, as products which claim to be great at everything tend to be good at nothing.

Thank you for mentioning the DX9 though, I wasn't aware of that one. Is it LITERALLY just the A90 and D90 sharing a box together, or is it an electrical amalgamation of the two, where the circuitry has been changed to reflect the fact that they're built together?

 

[TyTB]

So much thought so little budget

Lol we all must live within our means. $900 is more than enough to get a good DAC and amp.

 

[pbui44]

Hey yeah, I've seen this recommended a lot. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's just a DAC, right? No amp? I'm confused because the literature mentions only a DAC, but it has a volume knob and headphone outputs.

There is an headphone amp in the front with an 3.5mm out that is specially made for in-ear-monitors, but it is single-ended only. More expensive RME ADI-2 models have the headphone amp in balanced as well.

 

[TyTB]

There is an headphone amp in the front with an 3.5mm out that is specially made for in-ear-monitors, but it is single-ended only. More expensive RME ADI-2 models have the headphone amp in balanced as well.

Ah, in that case it will be too far beyond my budget.

 

[pbui44]

Ah, in that case it will be too far beyond my budget.

Do your future upgrades have to follow the same company as your initial purchase?

 

[TyTB]

Do your future upgrades have to follow the same company as your initial purchase?

I'm okay mixing and matching so long as the products go together visually. Don't want a silver round and bubbly amp sitting atop a black square DAC, for example. But something like a Topping amp on top of an RME DAC is possibly okay.

I must stress though there will never be an upgrade. This is a one-time purchase that needs to last me at least ten years, ideally 15, 20+. The DAC and amp would be purchased now, and a power amp would be purchased in maybe two years from now.

 

[HipHopScribe]

I haven't personally heard their power amps, but having owned and auditioned many Schiit headphone amps and DAC over the years, that was my immediate thought when I read the title

 

[TyTB]

I haven't personally heard their power amps, but having owned and auditioned many Schiit headphone amps and DAC over the years, that was my immediate thought when I read the title

Yeah, Schiit is the brand I was most seriously considering for a long time. I would be buying a Modius DAC (ES9028 or AKM?) and a Jotunheim 2 Amp, and then one day adding the Gjallarhorn power amp. I know the gjallarhorn isn't the most powerful amp in the world but that's okay, it's just for a near-field 2.1 setup.

What I'm more concerned with, though, is that schiits Modius and jotunheim products measure quite poorly compared to other products on the market. I don't know if it's bad enough to matter, though, as actual reviews of the products seem to praise them quite a bit.

 

[davesa]

The DX9 is more that a D90 + A90D - I mention an A90D as that is their discrete offering and is different than the A90 and more expensive - while you can get a used D90 that uses the AKM 4499EX they no longer offer the D90 with the cool AKM DAC, instead they offer an ESS DAC in the D90 now. This has to do with the fire at the AKM factory and limited / no supply of the AKM 4499EX. They are doing a limited run of the DX9 with a few of their remaining AKM 4499EX. The DX9 offers more inputs and outputs as well but is similar in features to the D90 - it also offers the glass top and the cool VU / FFT displays. As a limited run Topping unit the constructions is a bit nicer as well - but not something crazy like a GSX Mini or Burson GT3/Voyager level of nice.

Also as a combined unit you do not have to buy extra interconnects and it has a clean look.

 

[davesa]

on the Schiit side... why not the Midgard for the amp - it measures great and has good reviews on sites like ASR - SINAD is only 1 off the Topping A90D. Then you can spend more on the DAC and go with a Bifrost and you can be balanced out of the DAC to the amp... and use the balanced headphone out of the Midgard

Schiit does have a 15 day return policy so you could try it and you would still have an out if you did not like it

And with the amp being only $220 you could always upgrade later if you wanted to try something else but would have a good DAC to pair with anything in the future

 

[HipHopScribe]

Yeah, Schiit is the brand I was most seriously considering for a long time. I would be buying a Modius DAC (ES9028 or AKM?) and a Jotunheim 2 Amp, and then one day adding the Gjallarhorn power amp. I know the gjallarhorn isn't the most powerful amp in the world but that's okay, it's just for a near-field 2.1 setup.

What I'm more concerned with, though, is that schiits Modius and jotunheim products measure quite poorly compared to other products on the market. I don't know if it's bad enough to matter, though, as actual reviews of the products seem to praise them quite a bit.

Personally, I pay almost zero attention when it comes to measurements on amps and DAC these days. Sure, 20 years ago when I got into this hobby there was some legitimately bad stuff out there, but solid-state gear in 2024? A lot of these measurements out there are measuring differences well beyond what any human can actually hear.