[RVJ84]

I have literally only ever owned 1 pair of IEMs, CCA C16. I was always more than happy with those, so have stuck with them for a few years, but now they need replacing.

I don't feel I know enough about IEMs in general, with all the terminology involved, to be able to decide on what I should replace them with.

I'm conflicted between looking for ones that offer better bass, because of the genres of music I listen to, versus more analytical ones, because I use them a huge amount for music production purposes, more so than just recreational listening. This is due to specific circumstances, I'm not able to set up a studio environment with speakers at the moment which would be the preference, so IEMs will have to do.

I would also list soundstage as a requirement too, I like mixing with a lot of width, although depth maybe less important.

Anyway, budget-wise, I'm looking at around probably $300 maximum. Maybe more, if taken into consideration that we're closing in on Black Friday and some IEMs outside of that budget may be inside of it at around that time.

Any suggestions greatly appreciated! Many thanks.

 

[surfgeorge]

Based on the fact that you use them for music production I'd look for a neutral and fairly technical IEM.
The go-to recommendation at this price point is the Moondrop Blessing 2 or if you want a moderately boosted bass, the Blessing 2 Dusk (You could reduce bass with PEQ for mixing...)

The other alternative in terms of tuning seems to be the 7Hz Timeless but I have never heard it, maybe someone else (@baskingshark ?) can chime in.

 

[pbui44]

If you don't care about its look, then there is the 1Hz x Crinacle Salnotes Dioko for 99 quid:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Salnotes-Dioko-Aviation-grade-Detachable-Audiophile/dp/B0B571FWFK

 

[RVJ84]

Thanks for the replies!

Doing some further digging into Blessing 2.

7Hz Timeless was one that I'd seen before. To be honest I've been cagey about going for a planar because I'd been under the impression (maybe a misconception) that I'd have to sacrifice the bass I wanted. I'd appreciate if someone could please let me know if that's the case or not. And if anyone does want to champion the planars, please let me know your thoughts on Timeless versus S12 (or other planars), especially with the requirements I listed in the original post.

I'd forgotten to include a question about the different types of drivers, as that is probably the thing I find most confusing. If i enjoyed the CCA C16 so much, should I be looking for more similar all balanced armature setups?

If you don't care about its look, then there is the 1Hz x Crinacle Salnotes Dioko for 99 quid:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Salnotes-Dioko-Aviation-grade-Detachable-Audiophile/dp/B0B571FWFK

Ah, yeah... I don't think I'd be able to look past that unfortunately! But thanks for the recommendation anyway.

 

[RVJ84]

Based on the fact that you use them for music production I'd look for a neutral and fairly technical IEM.
The go-to recommendation at this price point is the Moondrop Blessing 2 or if you want a moderately boosted bass, the Blessing 2 Dusk (You could reduce bass with PEQ for mixing...)

The other alternative in terms of tuning seems to be the 7Hz Timeless but I have never heard it, maybe someone else (@baskingshark ?) can chime in.

Another question I had... when people talk about using EQ for IEMs, is this a specific app for the IEMs? Or is it the same thing as having an EQ on your computers soundcard? I have Sonic Studio on my PC, does that qualify for what I could use to boost / cut?

 

[earmonger]

If you can control the EQ from your computer as finely as you want to, then you're fine. There are assorted apps (and hardware too) but they are all controlling the same signal.

-------------------------------

Etymotic IEMs are famously neutral. ER2SE, ER2XR, ER3SE, ER3XR, ER4SR, ER4XR.

The ER2 are single dynamic driver. The ER3 and 4 are balanced armature.

The SE and SR (s for studio reference) are fastidiously neutral, while the XR variations add a slight -- far from overpowering -- bass boost. I have the ER3XR, which have a wide but not deep soundstage, and they do put you right in the control room. I tend to prefer dynamic drivers, but I got the ER3XR because there was a great price at the time.

There's a big price leap between the Ety 3 and the Ety 4 that may not be worth the increase; the ER4 are individually matched to some imperceptible spec, while the ER3s are just well-manufactured. Etymotic would no doubt replace a pair with any giant disparity.

Also, Etys are made to go deep into your ears, which some people cannot abide. Personally I find them extremely comfortable with their (included) foam eartips, not the flanges that are usually shown. Get them from a place that allows refunds in case you are one of those people who can't stand them.

Even the aformentioned Crinacle respects the Etys, as you can see in his reviews of them at crinacle.com .

 

[Ufanco]

Another vote for the moondrop blessing 2 Dusk. I have the moondrop variations but there outa your budget. On equalizer there’s a ton of choices depending on what you are using as a source?

 

[RVJ84]

Thanks guys.

Looking into the Etys, I'm probably sliiiightly leaning towards feeling like they're a little too mid-focused for me. But then, as I said to begin with, I'm currently too conflicted choosing between something suited to my genre preferences and wanting, maybe unrealistically, the reference sound for the production side of it that I'd be using them for.

Maybe I really do need to re-evaluate wanting to continue with IEMs instead of OEs. I had some Beyerdynamic DT 990s before the CCAs and much preferred the latter (albeit without fully understanding why), hence why I decided I wanted IEMs again.

I keep realising I left things out of the original post that may be helpful. So, as I haven't mentioned it yet, the genres I'm working with are Trance / Techno / House / Synthwave & Cinematic. I haven't come across enough forum posts discussing IEMs in terms of production use, so I'm wondering if should I ditch phrases such as 'reference' in favour of recommendations for something with a 'V-shape signature' for those genres. For general listening uses, the answer would obviously be yes. I'm just hoping that asking for help from people with more experience of what an IEM can be capable of (especially with potential improvements in the last few years, as it's not a subject I've been keeping myself updated on), might be of benefit in terms of also wanting the details to be present still, alongside the V-shape sound.

Then again, it could all be irrelevant as I'm making the music myself, everything starts from a neutral point of view and I'm fully in control of how much or little there is in every frequency range in the finished product. So, from that point of view I'd probably be better off focusing on nothing but the most technically sufficient offering. I'm confusing myself trying to make a decision!

Anyway, the ER3XR is going on my shortlist for now, along with the Blessing Dusk. Reading about the Etys did lead me to a couple of others that interested me, if anyone has any opinions on them... Oriveti, as a brand in general, as at the moment I'm unsure whether or not the one I first read about called 'New Primacy' was discontinued or not. But, their others sound quite good too. The other one being the Lotoo LE-M1.

Another vote for the moondrop blessing 2 Dusk. I have the moondrop variations but there outa your budget. On equalizer there’s a ton of choices depending on what you are using as a source?

Not sure I understand what you mean by source... from the production side it would be coming from a DAW, otherwise just general MP3 or WAV files. But it seems as though I could just use the Sonic Studio software that came with my PC. I just wasn't sure if some IEMs came with specific added software that had more accurate results or something.

 

[RVJ84]

Oh, and speaking of products outside of the price range I gave, what is the market like for IEMs in the Black Friday / Cyber Monday sales? I don't know why, but I've somehow spent my entire life literally without ever buying something sold in those sales. So, I have no idea what to expect from them now that I'm gonna be looking to take advantage this year.

 

[torpid]

Oh, and speaking of products outside of the price range I gave, what is the market like for IEMs in the Black Friday / Cyber Monday sales? I don't know why, but I've somehow spent my entire life literally without ever buying something sold in those sales. So, I have no idea what to expect from them now that I'm gonna be looking to take advantage this year.

Usually it's 10-20% off depending on the store and IEM.

 

[RVJ84]

Ah okay, thanks. Maybe push the budget restraints to $350 then! But still not quite Moondrop Variations territory.

 

[earmonger]

If you are looking at Chi-Fi, AliExpress always has a sale around Nov. 11 (11/11) and you're likely to get a good discount on brands like Moondrop around then.

I would think twice about getting a strongly V-shaped IEM or OE if you are doing production, especially for dance music. The bass boost of a V-shaped response means you would be mixing in LESS bass because you'd be hearing more. So listeners without a V-shaped playback wouldn't be getting all that propulsion.

For production, ideally, you should get playback on varying setups: reference and "fun" and V-shaped and U-shaped. Phil Spector brought full orchestras into the studio for his "Wall of Sound," but checked his playback on 2-inch car radio speakers. Within your budget you could get both a pair of V-shaped IEMs and a more reference pair.

You could also get my beloved over-ear pair, the Audio-Technica ATH-R70X, an open-backed studio reference headphone that is incredibly comfortable and so clear that it sounds like it isn't even there. More than once I have turned around because I thought I heard a sound from afar. It also claims a bass response down to 5 Hz.

https://www.thomann.de/gb/audio_technica_ath_r70_x.htm

An amp helps it sound even more spacious: voilá, the inexpensive Venture Electronics Megatron that plugs into a USB port.
https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=63

If I were producing EDM -- or dancing to it -- I'd use those.

There are a lot of recording professionals at another site: https://gearspace.com/

You can get good advice here but it's well worth clicking around there as well.

 

[Ufanco]

Thanks guys.

Looking into the Etys, I'm probably sliiiightly leaning towards feeling like they're a little too mid-focused for me. But then, as I said to begin with, I'm currently too conflicted choosing between something suited to my genre preferences and wanting, maybe unrealistically, the reference sound for the production side of it that I'd be using them for.

Maybe I really do need to re-evaluate wanting to continue with IEMs instead of OEs. I had some Beyerdynamic DT 990s before the CCAs and much preferred the latter (albeit without fully understanding why), hence why I decided I wanted IEMs again.

I keep realising I left things out of the original post that may be helpful. So, as I haven't mentioned it yet, the genres I'm working with are Trance / Techno / House / Synthwave & Cinematic. I haven't come across enough forum posts discussing IEMs in terms of production use, so I'm wondering if should I ditch phrases such as 'reference' in favour of recommendations for something with a 'V-shape signature' for those genres. For general listening uses, the answer would obviously be yes. I'm just hoping that asking for help from people with more experience of what an IEM can be capable of (especially with potential improvements in the last few years, as it's not a subject I've been keeping myself updated on), might be of benefit in terms of also wanting the details to be present still, alongside the V-shape sound.

Then again, it could all be irrelevant as I'm making the music myself, everything starts from a neutral point of view and I'm fully in control of how much or little there is in every frequency range in the finished product. So, from that point of view I'd probably be better off focusing on nothing but the most technically sufficient offering. I'm confusing myself trying to make a decision!

Anyway, the ER3XR is going on my shortlist for now, along with the Blessing Dusk. Reading about the Etys did lead me to a couple of others that interested me, if anyone has any opinions on them... Oriveti, as a brand in general, as at the moment I'm unsure whether or not the one I first read about called 'New Primacy' was discontinued or not. But, their others sound quite good too. The other one being the Lotoo LE-M1.



Not sure I understand what you mean by source... from the production side it would be coming from a DAW, otherwise just general MP3 or WAV files. But it seems as though I could just use the Sonic Studio software that came with my PC. I just wasn't sure if some IEMs came with specific added software that had more accurate results or something.

Sorry source is what feeding the audio to the iem. Are you going use computer or phone or a dap (digital audio player) ?

 

[baskingshark]

I have literally only ever owned 1 pair of IEMs, CCA C16. I was always more than happy with those, so have stuck with them for a few years, but now they need replacing.

I don't feel I know enough about IEMs in general, with all the terminology involved, to be able to decide on what I should replace them with.

I'm conflicted between looking for ones that offer better bass, because of the genres of music I listen to, versus more analytical ones, because I use them a huge amount for music production purposes, more so than just recreational listening. This is due to specific circumstances, I'm not able to set up a studio environment with speakers at the moment which would be the preference, so IEMs will have to do.

I would also list soundstage as a requirement too, I like mixing with a lot of width, although depth maybe less important.

Anyway, budget-wise, I'm looking at around probably $300 maximum. Maybe more, if taken into consideration that we're closing in on Black Friday and some IEMs outside of that budget may be inside of it at around that time.

Any suggestions greatly appreciated! Many thanks.

The LZ A7 is a very nice midFI IEM, you can read about it. It has 10 tuning options via nozzles/switches, so it is extremely versatile, as you can tune it to be neutral versus U shaped versus V shaped on the go.

It has good technicalities, great isolation and comes well accessorized.

It routinely sells around $300USD+, but during sales I have seen it at low $200s.

I think it a great set as it isn't a one trick pony as you can tune it to your liking to suit various music genres.

7Hz Timeless was one that I'd seen before. To be honest I've been cagey about going for a planar because I'd been under the impression (maybe a misconception) that I'd have to sacrifice the bass I wanted. I'd appreciate if someone could please let me know if that's the case or not. And if anyone does want to champion the planars, please let me know your thoughts on Timeless versus S12 (or other planars), especially with the requirements I listed in the original post.

Planars are kind of the latest hype of 2022 for IEMs. They generally bring fast transients, great resolution and technicalities to the table, though most of them have an unnatural timbre, say compared to single DD types.

So there are pros and cons among the different driver types.

Comparing the planar rivals 7Hz Timeless to the S12, the former is less V shaped, and less bright, with not as deep sub-bass extension. The Timeless has a tinge better resolution, imaging, and instrument separation but suffers from a pronounced lack of soundstage depth (though it have good soundstage width). In essence, music sounds very 2D with the Timeless. Timbre is also a bit worse on the Timeless, and it is more expensive.

So between the two, I think the S12 is better value. Actually, Shuoer has released a S12 Pro recently, that has the same tuning as the original, just that it has a modular stock cable for 2.5/3.5/4.4 mm modules. So you might wanna consider that instead of the original S12.

The S12/S12 Pro and Timeless are all a bit bright though, so not the best option if you are treble sensitive. There's a new planar, the Tangzu Audio Zetian Wu, which is less technical than the S12/Timeless, but it has a warmer and more analoguish tonality, good timbre and fatigue free.

Anyway, the ER3XR is going on my shortlist for now, along with the Blessing Dusk. Reading about the Etys did lead me to a couple of others that interested me, if anyone has any opinions on them... Oriveti, as a brand in general, as at the moment I'm unsure whether or not the one I first read about called 'New Primacy' was discontinued or not. But, their others sound quite good too. The other one being the Lotoo LE-M1.

The Oriveti New Primacy didn't age well TBH. It was okay a few years ago, but it is not too relavant today. It has a very bad plasticky timbre and one of the worst driver flex I've encountered in an IEM. Technicalities and tonality is a bit meh, for the price, most of the modern day releases stomp on it.

 

[earmonger]

@baskingshark has been around awhile and offers a lot of good information here.

I have read a lot about the LZ A7 and have been extremely tempted, though I have not yet taken the plunge. But its many variable tunings make it sound like it would be good for your multiple uses -- enjoyment and mixing -- and you could hear how a bunch of different tunings affect your mix.

Take a look at AliExpress in the first days of November and see how low its price dips. The stores there announce their sales with countdown clocks.