[ooh]

An idea came up recently in conversation about listening to classical repertoire, and since I was reading on this site, I figured this may be one place to ask...

Does anyone know or have an idea for estimating how many hours of classical music have been composed, ever? Don't get too nitpicky here--let's assume average tempo and pacing.

Repertoire, as far as I know, refers to individual works created by composers that has been accepted as generally good. So...I don't have a reference point but a generally ugly work by a good composer would not be considered a part of the repertoire.

So forget that definition of the word for the purpose of this discussion.

This may be an impossible question but...I'm looking for the number of hours of music produced by *all* composers of classical music who have been relevant enough to have produced *one* work that has entered the common repertoire.

Am I the only one?

We could go into divisions--I am not too concerned about Medieval or Renaissance, although that can be included in the final number. And I would exclude modern stuff beyond some relatively arbitrary year...1978?

So something like...16xx to 197x maybe?

I am curious as to how much Medieval stuff is out there though, since it appears there's not too much.

So far my closest guess has been this:

From an internet list, I found a list of 222 composers from the above mentioned periods. Assuming each composer had an average of 10 hours worth of compositions, we're looking at of course 2220 hours.

Add Bach, Beethoven and Mozart, who go over the average by about a total of 394 hours (judging from the contents of each respective composers' "complete" boxes).

So around 2700 hours? That's less than a half year!

Any ideas? Knowing that I am the master killer of threads, I expect little response.

This idea came in part from seeing that the complete works of the big three have all been recorded and released. If that can be covered...what can't? I know quite a few others have had their complete works released as well, so it would seem not totally out there. ?

I want to know if it's humanly possible to hear everything created. I find it odd that I've discovered works in classical music that are generally ignored, but still incredible pieces.

 

[calaf]

The Penguin guide, which one could take as representing the "core" repertoire has 1524 pages in its 2003/4 edition. I estimated the average number of entries per page, and got approximately 5 entries/page. Some entries represent less than a CD, but many are multi-CD box sets. So I'd say only the Penguin guide covers roughly 10000 hours of music.

 

[hempcamp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by calaf /img/forum/go_quote.gif So I'd say only the Penguin guide covers roughly 10000 hours of music.

I think 10000 hours is a conservative estimate.

That said, I'd better get busy listening, I only have 2.8 days worth ripped!

--Chris

 

[zowie]

Start out by listening to the Naxos catalogue and get back to us.

 

[ooh]

Interesting ideas so far--thanks for the comments.

I do realize that I asked a question and answered it, but I forgot to mention one main point: what modifications or additions could one make to my method of coming up with my number? Or, am I missing something?

I know Naxos definitely has a pretty wide catalog, but they also cover a lot of stuff I would not consider to be within my definition (they have composers who do not have a single work in the established repertoire yet).

And in the case of the Penguin guide...I don't know how to best put this but, aren't record guides going to provide an inaccurate answer?

I thought those guides covered releases--and I'm not necessarily looking for releases, but the number of hours it would take to listen to an established composer's entire work, from beginning to end. I don't know if using the above method you accounted for would get close to that number.

Does the Penguin guide give a single example for each work a composer produced, ever? (I was going to use Beethoven's Wellington's Victory--a piece it seems many consider to be garbage, and not at all repertoire, but to my surprise found that the Penguin has a recommendation! So at least they have *that* covered.)

Because as I'm sure you know, a release may have a Beethoven and a Tchaikovsky, but I would only count one recording of each work once.

I'm sure there's 10000 hours of classical music out there--there's probably well over 500 hours of Beethoven's 5th, alone. But I'm only interested in the 30 or so minutes (or whatever it is...actually I don't particularly like the 5th but anyway).

It's interesting that over time, so many people have been able to compile so much about classical music without having a definite, easy answer to this question.

In classical and in music in general it's possible to get into high specificity such as, which pressing, what country, color of label on the record, etc. That information, although spotty, is sometimes available.

It would seem this answer should be easier.

If I can, I may try to figure this out by finding complete works of the 222 above mentioned composers and adding up the number of cds (assuming each is 1 hour long).

I don't want any repetition of works--just one example of each composition.

If anyone has ideas please let me know...thanks!

 

[calaf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ooh /img/forum/go_quote.gif Does the Penguin guide give a single example for each work a composer produced, ever? (I was going to use Beethoven's Wellington's Victory--a piece it seems many consider to be garbage, and not at all repertoire, but to my surprise found that the Penguin has a recommendation! So at least they have *that* covered.) Because as I'm sure you know, a release may have a Beethoven and a Tchaikovsky, but I would only count one recording of each work once. I'm sure there's 10000 hours of classical music out there--there's probably well over 500 hours of Beethoven's 5th, alone. But I'm only interested in the 30 or so minutes (or whatever it is...actually I don't particularly like the 5th but anyway).

good point, but when I said the Penguin had about five entries per page I meant five distinct works. In each of the entries they list multiple recordings of that work. There is some overlap (e.g. they have an entry for the Beethoven complete symphonies and approximately one for each individual symphony) but my estimate was not accurate enough to worry about that. So I stand by my ballpark 10000 hours, fully aware that once you consider all obscure works that would never make into the Penguin there may be even one order of magnitude more music out there.

 

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ooh /img/forum/go_quote.gif Does anyone know or have an idea for estimating how many hours of classical music have been composed, ever? Don't get too nitpicky here--let's assume average tempo and pacing.

Are you counting everything ever composed or just the 'symphonies'? I imagine just looking at symphonies would help narrow it down, but many new symphonies are written every year, so an exact number must be hard to come by.

But I will say YES, once you are able to decide what is and is not classical music (is a symphony by Xenakis or a 30-second ditty by Elfman going to count?), and quit your job and do nothing but listen for 8 hours a day, you should be done in less than 10 years.

 

[mbhaub]

This is a good question and after pondering it I came up with this:

There are roughly 600 works in the standard orchestal repertoire. For pianists, there must be at least that amount, although most of the works are much shorter. Imagine the amount of chamber music, choral music, and opera. There are probably 100 standard operas. So just estimating, I would say that there is perhaps 3000 hours of music that is in the normal canon.

Now, add in the works of lesser knowns, but composers vital to some of us: Raff, Schmidt, Zemlinsky, Korngold, Pfitzner, Rubinstein, Atterberg, Arnell, Bax, and many more and you've easily added another couple of thousand more hours. Then the countless (and nameless) composers no one seems to know anything about anymore, like Hirschbach, and maybe doubled that total. It is not inconceivable that there may be 10,000 to 15,000 hours of so called classical music. So I called a musicologist friend who wrote a dissertation on the Romantic era symphony. He said that the British Library music division people estimate that there were no fewer than 20,000 (!) symphonies written in the 19th century alone. Of those, fewer than 1% have survived the ages. Amazing, if true. All I know is that I'm sitting here with a library of 6000 cds. If I listen to two a day (which I don') it would take nearly 20 years to get through them all. And that's assuming I don't buy any more, which won't happen, either. In my mid-50s, will I make it long enough to listen to each of them once more? (Any one want to inherit some disks?)

 

[FalconP]

From the FAQ page of Naxos:

Quote:

Hasn't everything important been recorded already? Someone once estimated that about two million hours of classical music have been composed, yet the industry has only made about 100,000 hours of that music into discs

Naxos did not quote their sources, but if the whole classical musical industry has only recorded some 100,000 hours worth of repertiore, then I'd suspect 10,000 hours is quite above what is generally considered "core". Yet on the other hand many, many composers did write more than 10 hours of important music -- 4 to 5 operas, masses or ballets will have consumed the 10 hours. Hence I'd say the figure is likely to be above 3000 hours.

Between 3000 and 10,000 is only a difference of three-fold-something. A "core" list that is more inclusive, with more composers and more works from each, can easily have three times as much music than a stricter one.

 

[tw0k1ngs]

Don't forget that every single recording of "quality" classical music is the equivalent of seeing a brilliant painting. The concerto may be 7 minutes long, but just like a Van Gogh, it isn't mean to be "glanced at" (the equivalent of just giving one listen)... to truly appreciate it take MANY listens, many many appreciations.

So sure, I assume we can all "hear" classical music... but it will take MUCH longer to truly... HEAR.... all classical music

.

The saddest part about music is the unfortunate amount of "mozarts" that will be born AFTER we are all gone.

We won't ever be able to hear those songs in Hi Fi .

 

[peanutbutterjam]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rock&Roll Ninja /img/forum/go_quote.gif Are you counting everything ever But I will say YES, once you are able to decide what is and is not classical music (is a symphony by Xenakis or a 30-second ditty by Elfman going to count?), and quit your job and do nothing but listen for 8 hours a day, you should be done in less than 10 years.

Ahh... Bliss... Sigh its time to go to work again

 

[Bunnyears]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbhaub /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is a good question and after pondering it I came up with this: There are roughly 600 works in the standard orchestal repertoire. For pianists, there must be at least that amount, although most of the works are much shorter. Imagine the amount of chamber music, choral music, and opera. There are probably 100 standard operas. So just estimating, I would say that there is perhaps 3000 hours of music that is in the normal canon. Now, add in the works of lesser knowns, but composers vital to some of us: Raff, Schmidt, Zemlinsky, Korngold, Pfitzner, Rubinstein, Atterberg, Arnell, Bax, and many more and you've easily added another couple of thousand more hours. Then the countless (and nameless) composers no one seems to know anything about anymore, like Hirschbach, and maybe doubled that total. It is not inconceivable that there may be 10,000 to 15,000 hours of so called classical music. So I called a musicologist friend who wrote a dissertation on the Romantic era symphony. He said that the British Library music division people estimate that there were no fewer than 20,000 (!) symphonies written in the 19th century alone. Of those, fewer than 1% have survived the ages. Amazing, if true. All I know is that I'm sitting here with a library of 6000 cds. If I listen to two a day (which I don') it would take nearly 20 years to get through them all. And that's assuming I don't buy any more, which won't happen, either. In my mid-50s, will I make it long enough to listen to each of them once more? (Any one want to inherit some disks?)

Chamber music easily comprises as many hours, or more than symphonic through the early Romantic period.

Let's just say that if you were to spend 2-3 hours a day listening to works without repeating any, you could spend a lifetime listening to classical output because there is so much and it is still being composed. If you decided you really liked what you were listening to, then you would naturally then want to listen to live concerts (yes, more hours listening). I'll also bet that you would want to revisit the greatest works over and over again when new interpretations are recorded. It's like Gershwin's or Cole Porter's songbooks: Ella Fitzgerald did a fantastic job, but don't you also want to hear how Frank Sinatra and Tony Bennett covered the music?

 

[pdennis]

This whole thread is a very silly idea.

How do you expect to come up with a consistent set of criteria for what composers and pieces are to be included or excluded? Opinions vary by generation, by culture and geographic area, by trend, by 'school', and by individual. There is no way to decide what music is good, important, or worthwhile, other than to make your own educated decisions. If a composer writes 50 symphonies, no one person can go through and say "OK, this one's important, but this one's trivial" in any definitive way.

I might have kept my opinion to myself, but let me explain why I feel I had to step in. It's very common for people to feel that music (classical or otherwise) has to be somehow 'approved' by an 'authority' for it to be okay to like or to take seriously. While almost universal, this is a big problem for me, and I'd hate for someone to read this thread and have that idea reinforced.

That argument aside, composers who each composed hundreds or thousands of hours of wonderful music include Bach, Mozart, Haydn, Telemann, Handel, Schubert, Dvorak, Liszt, Hindemith, and Hovhaness (plus many others). Rather than take a skeptical view of the amount of classical music that's been composed, we should rather be humbled and amazed by the vastness of our musical heritage. Even the most dedicated listener could never hope to hear more than a small percentage of all worthwhile music (even just classical music) in their lifetime. A definitive catalog? Impossible.

 

[robm321]

It couldn't be listened to in a lifetime. It is hard for me to find time to even listen to some of the longer symphonies.

 

[gilency]

I don't think this post is silly. Actually, I find it very interesting and appreciate everybody's comments. Just to add a little more listening time, how about adding different interpretations to each piece? For example, I love listening to Bach's music played on different styles even if it is not the way it was originally intended: from authentic instruments of the period, to the Swingle Swingers and Bobby McFerrin, each time I hear the same piece played in different ways, it opens a new experience.
I know that if I wanted to listen to all music, I would like to listen to it that way. Sorry to digress. I know it is a little different from the original question.