[AlexSSE]

Hi,

I am not sure if this the right place, but nevertheless

I am planning to renovate room to a dedicated listening room. The HiFi setup should be around 10 grand with open speakers, so nothing super fancy. The question I have, do you have any suggestions on the room itself, what should I consider, like walls structure, materials, positioning, to make acoustics better? The size of room will be around 10-15 square meters (I am not sure yet)

Thank you in advance

 

[msing539]

Have not built one--I believe the construction requires sound deadening inside the walls, plus acoustic strips on the studs to help with resonance. There's a lot that goes into it. For electrical, it should have its own sub panel. Might as well go with a heavy gauge wire so you're not choking power from the panel to amps, etc. While you're in there, I would also run ethernet cables in the walls.

And speaker wiring, away from the power. Run to any potential locations even though you might not use them now... like wire it for 10 speakers plus subs, etc. Plan for the future--you never know if it will end up becoming a home theater room.

 

[spittis]

Room acoustics is indeed a lot more important than most of the gear. Any tiny variations in your signal chain is completely lost if you got wonky acoustics. Speakers should also be chosen according to your room size and listening position, for example how are you able to position the speakers, do you get adequate space to walls or do you need to take into account being close. How you position the speakers and your listening spot has a huge effect on the sound, and you generally start with trying to optimize low end performance as much as possible with positioning, because it's the hardest to fix later with treatment. When you've done all you can with positioning and treatment, you can use room correction (EQ) for the last bit, measuring the room and doing DSP correction is a whole other topic on its own.

I'm not that knowledgeable on acoustic treatment myself, but there's a lot of resources on youtube and other sites, here are some I've used myself:

Audioholics room acoustics playlist:
link

Acousticinsider article, he has a good YT channel as well: https://www.acousticsinsider.com/blog/smart-acoustic-treatment

Because we're on head-fi, The Headphone Show's video on the topic:
link

Have not built one--I believe the construction requires sound deadening inside the walls, plus acoustic strips on the studs to help with resonance. There's a lot that goes into it. For electrical, it should have its own sub panel. Might as well go with a heavy gauge wire so you're not choking power from the panel to amps, etc. While you're in there, I would also run ethernet cables in the walls.

And speaker wiring, away from the power. Run to any potential locations even though you might not use them now... like wire it for 10 speakers plus subs, etc. Plan for the future--you never know if it will end up becoming a home theater room.

That's a bit excessive, if we're talking typical home sized listening room lol. One or two dedicated feeders should be plenty.

But yea if you're actually opening up the walls you want to use something like mineral wool in them for insulation. Empty walls are horrible for acoustics.

 

[msing539]

That's a bit excessive, if we're talking typical home sized listening room lol.

My thinking is it's easier to put it in at this point than down the line. Same with the wiring. Do it all now--everything in excess!

 

[bfreedma]

For most listening rooms, the important design elements are those you can't correct via DSP/EQ/Speaker Selection. Some suggestions

1. Square rooms almost always have acoustical issues and if they do, they are almost impossible to solve. With your budget, stick to a rectangular room
2. The best location for bass reproduction is usually not where you place your main speakers. Having a subwoofer that you can position for best bass response is hugely beneficial in most implementations. If your speaker or listening position sits in a bas null, no amount of power or EQ will fix it.
3. Think through your room design - where are the speakers going to be positioned and where is the primary listening position. From there, you can do some fairly basic/inexpensive treatments at the first reflection point on the long sides of the room and behind your main speakers
4. Hard surfaces are almost always bad for acoustics. Put a thick rug in the room and if possible, heavy curtains in front of any windows.
5. Plan to have the speakers at least 2 feet or so from the side and back walls to avoid corner loading issues.
6. Experiment with speaker placement. Small changes in distance to a wall/corner or toe in angle can have surprisingly large results
7. A measuring mic and software like REW will show you what's really happening. I'd learn to utilize measurements if you aren't familiar - the basics aren't that hard and can help identify and fix many room issues that can be difficult to do "by ear"

 

[AlexSSE]

Thank you all, I have now things to consider and do research xD. Now I am thinking to adjust the shape of the room, as it will significantly affect the quality compared to the gear. I mean I have budget for renovations and budget for the system, and now need to decide how to split it . It is a private house, so I have some freedom, but it also means I have to sacrifice space in other rooms a bit, if it will not be a rectangle. And I also don't want to overcomplicate it for the now. Maybe in couple of years I can do another step.

I like the idea to use measuring mic and I also see that I need do some experiments with speakers positioning. Thank you all once again

 

[bagwell359]

There is a lot. Wall to wall carpeting is usually a bad idea, but better than say a concrete floor with nothing on it, or a poorly sprung wooden floor. I like 2x3 throw rug checkboard patterns.

Reflection and absorption are easy to come by and overdo. The key hard to get element is diffusion - from padded furniture, and ASC traps. With early reflections mitigated and a good diffusion on the wall behind the speakers, the ability to have a realistic soundstage is now available. I always like long walls, and if typical speakers about .55-.65 the ratio between the tweets vs the measurement from that line to your ears. This is most critical with dipole speakers. Speakers with less dispersion (on purpose) do not interact with the room as much, but certainly still do, esp in the low mids->down.

Do not sit on a cushy chair, a single chair with no high back will be best. Also please do not stick a big screen TV between the speakers or have a tall metallic/wood equipment rack between the speakers. A low rack, or speaker wires to an adjacent closet (if using turntables) or near you down low again much better.

As for bass, try not to have the woofers (measure from the dust cap to the room boundaries the same for both speakers - it will lead to wherever you have issues be worse. Also the ratio of the 3 boundary measurements are best at 1, 1,67, 2.5 for smoothest bass. But you also need some distance from the speakers to the back wall to give a sense of depth, but not too much, and that may make the ratio impossible to meet, but at least avoid stuff like 1, 1, 2. Certainly EQ/DSP can deal with a lot of issues, but those (EQ) are frequency domain - other factors are also important.

Read as much as you can, and do your best. I was lucky for decades having good/great rooms, and dedicated space. One more tip, get comfy, take off your glasses (if you use them), and close your eyes when listening - that enhances the experience quite a bit

Add: PEQ > EQ; Fixed freq EQ can certainly help, but, if your ability to get data gets down to say 1/3 octave steps, even a 31 band fixed freq EQ can't meet the particular needs of a room/speaker as well as even an 8 band PEQ. I keep myself to 6 in most cases, since a .6 db adjustment from 200-230 Hz is pushing it a bit much.

 

[AlexSSE]

..get comfy, take off your glasses (if you use them), and close your eyes when listening - that enhances the experience quite a bit

That is almost a poetry . Thank you for your insights, I have now a lot to process and write down the plan on the cold head what to do next. I already broken it choosing the equipment xD

 

[bagwell359]

That is almost a poetry . Thank you for your insights, I have now a lot to process and write down the plan on the cold head what to do next. I already broken it choosing the equipment xD

Please report back if you make progress.

 

[AlexSSE]

Please report back if you make progress.

Will do But it will take some time My original thought was to listen to the music in a good place with the quality but reasonable equipment, but now I am learning how to read Frequency response diagram, how to make renovations for the listening room, try to decide between AB and D amps, or maybe I need lamp amp So yeah, I need to slow a bit and focus on what matters at the beginning